Discussion:
Is Haiti a 'shithole' compared to Norway? https
(too old to reply)
PJay OD
2018-01-12 07:23:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Is Haiti a 'shithole' compared to Norway?

per Washington Post January 11 at 5:18 PM:

"...Haiti and countries in Africa certainly lag behind the rest of the world by almost any measure. Haiti ranks as one of the world's least-developed countries, according to the United Nations..."

https://www.un.org/development/desa/dpad/least-developed-country-category-haiti.html
b flanier
2018-01-12 07:43:02 UTC
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Raw Message
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
Hillary Is Going To Jail
2018-01-12 09:56:24 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:02 -0800 (PST), b flanier
Post by b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
What's worse?

Trump calling a spade a spade or Obama's DOJ Holder saying that hate
crime laws did not protect white people?

I'm with Trump on this. This is not the welfare stop of the world.
Governor Swill
2018-01-12 18:47:23 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 01:56:24 -0800, Hillary Is Going To Jail
Post by Hillary Is Going To Jail
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:02 -0800 (PST), b flanier
Post by b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
What's worse?
Trump calling a spade a spade or Obama's DOJ Holder saying that hate
crime laws did not protect white people?
I'm with Trump on this. This is not the welfare stop of the world.
You say that because you're ignorant. Folks wanting to come to the US
come here to work and build a better life for themselves and their
kids. They didn't squat on the floor of their hovel trying to figure
out how to come to the US and live off the public teat.

Swill
--
How do you propose we pay for Trumps trillion
dollar border wall and Trumps trillion dollar
infrastructure plan and Trump's trillion dollar
defense budget? - Mitchell Holman

With a trillion dollar tax cut? - Swill
Mr. B1ack
2018-01-13 03:40:53 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 13:47:23 -0500, Governor Swill
Post by Governor Swill
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 01:56:24 -0800, Hillary Is Going To Jail
Post by Hillary Is Going To Jail
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:02 -0800 (PST), b flanier
Post by b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
What's worse?
Trump calling a spade a spade or Obama's DOJ Holder saying that hate
crime laws did not protect white people?
I'm with Trump on this. This is not the welfare stop of the world.
You say that because you're ignorant. Folks wanting to come to the US
come here to work and build a better life for themselves and their
kids. They didn't squat on the floor of their hovel trying to figure
out how to come to the US and live off the public teat.
Except perhaps for the jihad-friendly countries I do not
doubt the MOTIVES of the would-be immigrants. Yes,
they'd like to "build a better life". Unfortunately this isn't
1890 anymore, we're not labor-starved and we have
no OBLIGATION to bring in large numbers of people
that can barely figure out how to use a toilet. We
are a country, not a charity org - as someone said
recently.

So, now, we're gonna PICK AND CHOOSE. Who's
most likely to contribute to our society/economy the
fastest ? Chinese PhD ... COME ON DOWN !
Algerian dung collector ... re-apply tomorrow. In
the 1800s we needed HANDS, today we need
MINDS much more. Immigration is supposed to
serve US, not "them".
Gary
2018-01-12 12:35:07 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:02 -0800 (PST), b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit.
If Obama had said that -- most white people (Republicans) would have
thought him the most intelligent mulatto to serve as president.
This Trump is a racist.
Racist -- a person proud of his anglo-saxon (and Scandinavian)
culture.
Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!!
I would hope the number who agree is a lot larger.
What have we become?
Become ? Since when ? Since Brown vs Board of Ed -- we've become
a cultural shit-hole. That's when America lost its mono-cultural
greatest and sunk into "diversity". "Diversity" -- which is another
word for "sewage".
GLOBALIST
2018-01-12 19:47:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Hillary Is Going To Jail
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:43:02 -0800 (PST), b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit.
If Obama had said that -- most white people (Republicans) would have
thought him the most intelligent mulatto to serve as president.
This Trump is a racist.
Racist -- a person proud of his anglo-saxon (and Scandinavian)
culture.
Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!!
I would hope the number who agree is a lot larger.
What have we become?
Become ? Since when ? Since Brown vs Board of Ed -- we've become
a cultural shit-hole. That's when America lost its mono-cultural
greatest and sunk into "diversity". "Diversity" -- which is another
word for "sewage".
Can only blacks say this:

Loading Image...
me
2018-01-12 17:21:48 UTC
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Raw Message
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
El Castor
2018-01-12 20:23:45 UTC
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Raw Message
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-12 21:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
El Castor
2018-01-13 19:09:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-13 20:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.

---

I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
El Castor
2018-01-14 09:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.
---
I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
"Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to
the US: Estimate"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-14 18:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:32:33 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.
---
I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
"Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to
the US: Estimate"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html
How about reporting on that when and if it actually
happens? You also make no mention of whether
anybody says that Trump's tax cut for the rich will
have had anything to do with it. I know you think it
must, assuming it really happens, but you think a lot
of things, mostly screwy.

Meanwhile, this tax bill prefers the rich to the rest
of us as expected, and SS and Medicare are now
under threat as expected, not to speak of the
two-trillion dollar addition to the National Debt just
for the sake of feeding the rich and rich corporations.

Stay tuned, it will be "interesting times".
El Castor
2018-01-14 19:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:32:33 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.
---
I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
"Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to
the US: Estimate"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html
How about reporting on that when and if it actually
happens? You also make no mention of whether
anybody says that Trump's tax cut for the rich will
have had anything to do with it. I know you think it
must, assuming it really happens, but you think a lot
of things, mostly screwy.
Meanwhile, this tax bill prefers the rich to the rest
of us as expected, and SS and Medicare are now
under threat as expected, not to speak of the
two-trillion dollar addition to the National Debt just
for the sake of feeding the rich and rich corporations.
Stay tuned, it will be "interesting times".
"Wall Street hits new highs on earnings optimism, data
Sinead Carew
(Reuters) - Wall Street continued its rally on Friday with record
closing highs as the fourth-quarter earnings season kicked off with
solid results from banks and robust retail sales drove investor
optimism about economic growth.
The S&P 500 and Nasdaq both registered their eight record closing
highs out of the first nine trading days of 2018, while the Dow
boasted its sixth closing high of the year.
JPMorgan (JPM.N), the biggest U.S. lender by assets, said a U.S. tax
overhaul would help future profits by reducing its tax bill and
stimulating more business. The bank’s shares rose 1.7 percent."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks/wall-street-hits-new-highs-on-earnings-optimism-data-idUSKBN1F11IW

"Fiat Chrysler will make Ram trucks in Michigan instead of Mexico
beginning in 2020, and the company says this will mean 2,500 extra
jobs at the plant in Warren, Detroit’s largest suburb.
While this isn’t the first bit of good economic news in the wake of
big corporate tax cuts Republicans just passed, it’s the one that
cheers us the most, because it best reflects the way lower corporate
taxes work.
The key is not bigger profits but increased competitiveness."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tax-cuts-drive-business-back-to-the-motor-city/article/2645816

"Walmart boosts minimum wage again, hands out $1,000 bonuses"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/01/11/walmart-boosts-minimum-wage-11-hands-out-bonuses-up-1-000-hourly-workers/1023606001/
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-14 21:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:47:49 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:32:33 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.
---
I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
"Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to
the US: Estimate"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html
How about reporting on that when and if it actually
happens? You also make no mention of whether
anybody says that Trump's tax cut for the rich will
have had anything to do with it. I know you think it
must, assuming it really happens, but you think a lot
of things, mostly screwy.
Meanwhile, this tax bill prefers the rich to the rest
of us as expected, and SS and Medicare are now
under threat as expected, not to speak of the
two-trillion dollar addition to the National Debt just
for the sake of feeding the rich and rich corporations.
Stay tuned, it will be "interesting times".
"Wall Street hits new highs on earnings optimism, data
Sinead Carew
(Reuters) - Wall Street continued its rally on Friday with record
closing highs as the fourth-quarter earnings season kicked off with
solid results from banks and robust retail sales drove investor
optimism about economic growth.
The S&P 500 and Nasdaq both registered their eight record closing
highs out of the first nine trading days of 2018, while the Dow
boasted its sixth closing high of the year.
Stocks go up and down. Stocks have been roaring,
perhaps unstably, for a long time now - since long
before the Trump tax revision, and long before Trump.
Post by El Castor
JPMorgan (JPM.N), the biggest U.S. lender by assets, said a U.S. tax
overhaul would help future profits by reducing its tax bill and
stimulating more business. The bank’s shares rose 1.7 percent."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks/wall-street-hits-new-highs-on-earnings-optimism-data-idUSKBN1F11IW
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
Post by El Castor
"Fiat Chrysler will make Ram trucks in Michigan instead of Mexico
beginning in 2020, and the company says this will mean 2,500 extra
jobs at the plant in Warren, Detroit’s largest suburb.
While this isn’t the first bit of good economic news in the wake of
big corporate tax cuts Republicans just passed, it’s the one that
cheers us the most, because it best reflects the way lower corporate
taxes work.
It's 2018 right now, and even that just barely. I don't
know what you think you're doing sometimes. Do you
get newsletters that tell you to post stuff like this?
Post by El Castor
The key is not bigger profits but increased competitiveness."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tax-cuts-drive-business-back-to-the-motor-city/article/2645816
"Walmart boosts minimum wage again, hands out $1,000 bonuses"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/01/11/walmart-boosts-minimum-wage-11-hands-out-bonuses-up-1-000-hourly-workers/1023606001/
Oh good grief, that's far less than 1% of working people,
anecdote man.
El Castor
2018-01-14 21:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:47:49 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:32:33 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:09:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:23:45 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
We have become a divided nation largely because of Democrat ‘identity politics’ and resulting legislation. It brings out the worst in people - envy and adversarial relations.
Finally, something we can agree on.
I still don't know what "identity politics" is. I've
had it explained to me by you and others, but the
explanations don't make any sense to me. From
what I see of the Wiki explanation, you yourself
seem to be far more an "identity politics" guy
than I am. It's a different identity, but you're a
lot more hard-core about your identity group
than I am with regard to any group, including
"liberal" and "socialist" and "gay". I am very
hard-core about being a "Mozartean", but that
particular identity doesn't have any strong
political overtones.
Traditional liberal politics focused on the needs of the "working
class" in what it viewed as a class struggle against the capitalist
class. Identity politics sets aside the concept of a working class and
determines social value based on membership in allied groups --
identified by race, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,
national origin, and approved political and environmental activism.
Trump prevailed in the presidential election because his message
concerned itself with an appeal directed primarily at traditional
working class voters who felt abandoned by the Democrat party. These
were voters who saw their jobs lost to out of control immigration and
tax structures that drove traditional manufacturing overseas. Identity
politics has created a Democrat party that is compelled to support
illegal immigration, waves of Muslim refugees, Black Lives Matter (but
Black jobs don't), and direct action against what they consider to be
symbols of oppression -- statues, corporations, and speech with which
they disagree.
If you were trying to suggest you're not an "identity
politics" guy, you just proclaimed the opposite.
---
I agree that the Democratic party has not been
serving working people well, but thinking that the
Republican party will do better is a BIIIIG mistake
IMV. We're already seeing opening salvos against
Social Security and Medicare to compensate for the
tax cuts for billionaires and billionaire corporations.
The Republican party may try to hold off until after
the Nov 2018 elections, but I don't know if they can
make it that far.
"Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to
the US: Estimate"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html
How about reporting on that when and if it actually
happens? You also make no mention of whether
anybody says that Trump's tax cut for the rich will
have had anything to do with it. I know you think it
must, assuming it really happens, but you think a lot
of things, mostly screwy.
Meanwhile, this tax bill prefers the rich to the rest
of us as expected, and SS and Medicare are now
under threat as expected, not to speak of the
two-trillion dollar addition to the National Debt just
for the sake of feeding the rich and rich corporations.
Stay tuned, it will be "interesting times".
"Wall Street hits new highs on earnings optimism, data
Sinead Carew
(Reuters) - Wall Street continued its rally on Friday with record
closing highs as the fourth-quarter earnings season kicked off with
solid results from banks and robust retail sales drove investor
optimism about economic growth.
The S&P 500 and Nasdaq both registered their eight record closing
highs out of the first nine trading days of 2018, while the Dow
boasted its sixth closing high of the year.
Stocks go up and down. Stocks have been roaring,
perhaps unstably, for a long time now - since long
before the Trump tax revision, and long before Trump.
"Dow’s 1-year gain since Trump’s win is its biggest post-Election Day
rise since 1945"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-dows-one-year-gain-since-trumps-election-is-its-biggest-since-1945-2017-11-08
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
JPMorgan (JPM.N), the biggest U.S. lender by assets, said a U.S. tax
overhaul would help future profits by reducing its tax bill and
stimulating more business. The bank’s shares rose 1.7 percent."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-stocks/wall-street-hits-new-highs-on-earnings-optimism-data-idUSKBN1F11IW
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
JP Morgan was not tooting Trump's whistle -- it was projecting
earnings for it's own share holders.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
"Fiat Chrysler will make Ram trucks in Michigan instead of Mexico
beginning in 2020, and the company says this will mean 2,500 extra
jobs at the plant in Warren, Detroit’s largest suburb.
While this isn’t the first bit of good economic news in the wake of
big corporate tax cuts Republicans just passed, it’s the one that
cheers us the most, because it best reflects the way lower corporate
taxes work.
It's 2018 right now, and even that just barely. I don't
know what you think you're doing sometimes. Do you
get newsletters that tell you to post stuff like this?
There is this new fangled thing that you have apparently never heard
of. It's called Google News.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
The key is not bigger profits but increased competitiveness."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tax-cuts-drive-business-back-to-the-motor-city/article/2645816
"Walmart boosts minimum wage again, hands out $1,000 bonuses"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/01/11/walmart-boosts-minimum-wage-11-hands-out-bonuses-up-1-000-hourly-workers/1023606001/
Oh good grief, that's far less than 1% of working people,
anecdote man.
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone. When Ireland cut its corporate tax rates, France
went nuts and accused it of unfair competition. (-8

"There’s nothing unfair about the Irish having low taxes
Low corporate taxes are not incidental to Ireland’s economy. They are
critical to it "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11160268/Theres-nothing-unfair-about-the-Irish-having-low-taxes.html
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-01-14 21:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone.
Thanks to the tax cut and a full year in office, Trump owns the economy.
It is reasonable that Trump would point to the good things that are
happening right now (the Dow, Walmart's announcement, etc.), but most
likely people will ultimately decide for themselves based on their own
situation. And they will have two decisions to make, one in 2018 and
one in 2020.
El Castor
2018-01-15 08:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:53:21 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone.
Thanks to the tax cut and a full year in office, Trump owns the economy.
It is reasonable that Trump would point to the good things that are
happening right now (the Dow, Walmart's announcement, etc.), but most
likely people will ultimately decide for themselves based on their own
situation. And they will have two decisions to make, one in 2018 and
one in 2020.
Hmmmm. Do I detect a desire for a recession? Preferably, starvation in
the streets?
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-01-15 15:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:53:21 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone.
Thanks to the tax cut and a full year in office, Trump owns the economy.
It is reasonable that Trump would point to the good things that are
happening right now (the Dow, Walmart's announcement, etc.), but most
likely people will ultimately decide for themselves based on their own
situation. And they will have two decisions to make, one in 2018 and
one in 2020.
Hmmmm. Do I detect a desire for a recession? Preferably, starvation in
the streets?
I'm rooting for good times for all.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-15 02:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:38:16 -0800, El Castor >On Sun, 14 Jan 2018
13:07:01 -0800, rumpelstiltskin<***@y.com> wrote:
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Stocks go up and down. Stocks have been roaring,
perhaps unstably, for a long time now - since long
before the Trump tax revision, and long before Trump.
"Dow’s 1-year gain since Trump’s win is its biggest post-Election Day
rise since 1945"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-dows-one-year-gain-since-trumps-election-is-its-biggest-since-1945-2017-11-08
I should save that to post back at you if there's a downturn
soon but I'm sure others will remind you too.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
JP Morgan was not tooting Trump's whistle
I didn't say it was, nor did you.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Oh good grief, that's far less than 1% of working people,
anecdote man.
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone. When Ireland cut its corporate tax rates, France
went nuts and accused it of unfair competition. (-8
I want to see some benefit for non-billionaires.
Trickle-down doesn't.
Post by El Castor
"There’s nothing unfair about the Irish having low taxes
Low corporate taxes are not incidental to Ireland’s economy. They are
critical to it "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11160268/Theres-nothing-unfair-about-the-Irish-having-low-taxes.html
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
El Castor
2018-01-15 09:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:38:16 -0800, El Castor >On Sun, 14 Jan 2018
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Stocks go up and down. Stocks have been roaring,
perhaps unstably, for a long time now - since long
before the Trump tax revision, and long before Trump.
"Dow’s 1-year gain since Trump’s win is its biggest post-Election Day
rise since 1945"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-dows-one-year-gain-since-trumps-election-is-its-biggest-since-1945-2017-11-08
I should save that to post back at you if there's a downturn
soon but I'm sure others will remind you too.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
JP Morgan was not tooting Trump's whistle
I didn't say it was, nor did you.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Oh good grief, that's far less than 1% of working people,
anecdote man.
I have been lusting for a corporate tax cut for years. I am sure you
disagree, but the stock market and I believe it will benefit the whole
country -- everyone. When Ireland cut its corporate tax rates, France
went nuts and accused it of unfair competition. (-8
I want to see some benefit for non-billionaires.
Trickle-down doesn't.
Post by El Castor
"There’s nothing unfair about the Irish having low taxes
Low corporate taxes are not incidental to Ireland’s economy. They are
critical to it "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11160268/Theres-nothing-unfair-about-the-Irish-having-low-taxes.html
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-15 14:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
El Castor
2018-01-15 19:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-15 22:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
islander
2018-01-15 23:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute. We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-16 03:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
El Castor
2018-01-16 07:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-16 07:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:08:47 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.

Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
El Castor
2018-01-16 09:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:08:47 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-16 11:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 01:54:13 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:08:47 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
Yawn. I didn't make even a glimmer of a suggestion
I approved of it. I just said that's how it was. Humans
are brutal, and the USA is not free and clear.
Andersonville? Guantanamo? El Salvador?
Emily
2018-01-17 23:02:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 01:54:13 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
Yawn. I didn't make even a glimmer of a suggestion
I approved of it. I just said that's how it was. Humans
are brutal, and the USA is not free and clear.
Andersonville? Guantanamo? El Salvador?
Conditions at Andersonville were what they were because that's what we
in the South were suffering. What's so bad about Guantanamo? They
get fed and have their Korans and if they have to do any work, I
haven't heard about it.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-18 01:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Emily
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 01:54:13 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
Yawn. I didn't make even a glimmer of a suggestion
I approved of it. I just said that's how it was. Humans
are brutal, and the USA is not free and clear.
Andersonville? Guantanamo? El Salvador?
Conditions at Andersonville were what they were because that's what we
in the South were suffering.
I don't think sewage water was all that most of
the rest of the South had to drink.
Post by Emily
What's so bad about Guantanamo? They
get fed and have their Korans and if they have to do any work, I
haven't heard about it.
Guantanamo is a lovely place. I vacationed there
last summer: maidens handing out aperitifs, and
Morris Dances every evening. Delightful!
Gary
2018-01-16 12:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 01:54:13 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:08:47 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
Maybe some of us will be shown some mercy. After all -- we didn't
vote FOR Trump. We voted AGAINST Hillary :-)

(and would do it again)
El Castor
2018-01-16 22:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 01:54:13 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:08:47 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
I don't know much about Russian history, but I expect
that life for most people under the czars was worse
than it was under Lenin, otherwise how could Lenin have
had so much support. Those Siberian Slave camps
weren't invented by Lenin - they were already there.
Here's a wiki page on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katorga
So, anyone who voted for Trump gets sent to a labor camp to be worked
to death? Is that your vision of a bright future?
Maybe some of us will be shown some mercy. After all -- we didn't
vote FOR Trump. We voted AGAINST Hillary :-)
(and would do it again)
Don't need to worry about that. There is probably some rule that would
prohibit her from running from jail.
me
2018-01-16 15:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
You’re a stupid cow as well as a fraud. Millions of Russians died under the Glorious Worker’s Paradise of your dreamers. This story was repeated elsewhere - everywhere. For some examples, were the Cambodians better off under Pol Pot? Were the Cubans better off under Castro or Chinese under Mao? How about revolutionary France? Were the French better off with Napoleon? History says lots of them were sacrificed for regime changes all over Europe. Then add the millions killed in those changed regimes.

You’d better stick to enjoying your music collection in that rent-controlled apartment you feel entitled to. You know, the music made possible with the support of the very aristocrats you despise.
El Castor
2018-01-16 22:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
You’re a stupid cow as well as a fraud. Millions of Russians died under the Glorious Worker’s Paradise of your dreamers. This story was repeated elsewhere - everywhere. For some examples, were the Cambodians better off under Pol Pot? Were the Cubans better off under Castro or Chinese under Mao? How about revolutionary France? Were the French better off with Napoleon? History says lots of them were sacrificed for regime changes all over Europe. Then add the millions killed in those changed regimes.
You’d better stick to enjoying your music collection in that rent-controlled apartment you feel entitled to. You know, the music made possible with the support of the very aristocrats you despise.
A Cambodian friend told me that anyone found to be wearing eye glasses
or a ring would be deemed bourgeois, and executed.
Loading Image...
islander
2018-01-16 23:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-17 00:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
Didn't you mean France in 1989?
Post by islander
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
This thread seems to me to be getting awfully confused
Stalin's Ukrainian Famine was in 1932-33, long after
1917.
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ukra.html

Stalin wasn't the head of the USSR until after Lenin
died in 1924.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-17 00:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
Didn't you mean France in 1989?
correction: 1789
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
This thread seems to me to be getting awfully confused
Stalin's Ukrainian Famine was in 1932-33, long after
1917.
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ukra.html
Stalin wasn't the head of the USSR until after Lenin
died in 1924.
El Castor
2018-01-17 07:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
Didn't you mean France in 1989?
Post by islander
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
This thread seems to me to be getting awfully confused
Stalin's Ukrainian Famine was in 1932-33, long after
1917.
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ukra.html
Stalin wasn't the head of the USSR until after Lenin
died in 1924.
Yup
El Castor
2018-01-17 07:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
No. Wrong again. It was Lenin -- The October Revolution, and the
fighting that followed. I got that number from a Google search. Try it
yourself:
Search parameter ... "how many died in the russian revolution"
Google's immediate answer ...
"Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.
Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997) 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and
disease. Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls - Necrometrics
necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm"

Other sources put it at 9 million ...
"Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9,000,000"
http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm

The Ukrainian genocide, the Holodomor, was 10 years later. How many
millions died is unknown -- but it was millions. Russia stole the land
of those millions of dead Ukrainians and moved in Russian settlers.
Ethnic Russian descendants of those settlers are now fighting to aid
Russia in annexing parts of Ukraine.

BTW -- "More people have died for notions of a socialist utopia than
for any other explicit political ideology."
"U.S.S.R.: 20 million deaths; China: 65 million deaths; Vietnam: 1
million deaths; North Korea: 2 million deaths; Cambodia: 2 million
deaths: Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths; Latin America: 150,000
deaths; Africa: 1.7 million deaths; Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths;
The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in
power: about 10,000 deaths… The total approaches 100 million people
killed."
https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~hpcws/asreview.htm
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-17 19:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:43:37 -0800, El Castor <snip>
Post by El Castor
No. Wrong again. It was Lenin -- The October Revolution, and the
fighting that followed. I got that number from a Google search. Try it
Search parameter ... "how many died in the russian revolution"
Google's immediate answer ...
"Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.
Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997) 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and
disease. Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls - Necrometrics
necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm"
Considering the size and population of Russia, that
proportion pales in proportion to the number of
Vietnamese killed (about 3 million, largely civilians)
in the Vietnam war. There could have been far fewer
casualties ending in the same end result if the USA
hadn't stepped in.

Stalin killed far more, of course.
El Castor
2018-01-17 20:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:43:37 -0800, El Castor <snip>
Post by El Castor
No. Wrong again. It was Lenin -- The October Revolution, and the
fighting that followed. I got that number from a Google search. Try it
Search parameter ... "how many died in the russian revolution"
Google's immediate answer ...
"Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.
Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997) 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and
disease. Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls - Necrometrics
necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm"
Considering the size and population of Russia, that
proportion pales in proportion to the number of
Vietnamese killed (about 3 million, largely civilians)
in the Vietnam war. There could have been far fewer
casualties ending in the same end result if the USA
hadn't stepped in.
Stalin killed far more, of course.
While I agree that our participation in the Vietnam war was ill
conceived and a mistake, South Vietnam was a victim of aggression, and
they did have a right to request our held in repelling the North.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-17 21:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:49:29 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:43:37 -0800, El Castor <snip>
Post by El Castor
No. Wrong again. It was Lenin -- The October Revolution, and the
fighting that followed. I got that number from a Google search. Try it
Search parameter ... "how many died in the russian revolution"
Google's immediate answer ...
"Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.
Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997) 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and
disease. Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls - Necrometrics
necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm"
Considering the size and population of Russia, that
proportion pales in proportion to the number of
Vietnamese killed (about 3 million, largely civilians)
in the Vietnam war. There could have been far fewer
casualties ending in the same end result if the USA
hadn't stepped in.
Stalin killed far more, of course.
While I agree that our participation in the Vietnam war was ill
conceived and a mistake, South Vietnam was a victim of aggression, and
they did have a right to request our held in repelling the North.
That's your viewpoint, but Ho Chi Minh was and is
revered, whereas the various leaders of the South,
arguably mostly puppets of the USA or if they didn't
start that way they did end up that way, never won
the hearts of the people.
Emily
2018-01-17 22:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:49:29 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
While I agree that our participation in the Vietnam war was ill
conceived and a mistake, South Vietnam was a victim of aggression, and
they did have a right to request our help in repelling the North.
Did they? Whether they did or not, I feel sure that if they'd had
even the slightest idea what a mess we'd make of "helping", they'd
have kept their mouths shut.
islander
2018-01-17 23:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:22:19 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 01:00:23 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
They can have any tax structure they want, but when
companies that are getting rich from American resources
and/or labour sequester their profits in Ireland or anywhere
elsewhere to keep America from collecting the taxes, that's
an entirely different matter.
Profits to the tune of $2 - $3 trillion have been stashed overseas,
because if they were to be returned to the US they would have been
taxed at the highest rate in the developed world. Far higher than any
socialist paradise you would care to name.
I don't approve of bribing thieves to stop thieving.
I approve of prosecuting them.
So, corporations are run by thieves who should be prosecuted?
The thieves.
Sadly, the corporations have successfully modified the laws and their
agreements with executives that it is difficult to prosecute.
That's why we need a revolution. It's the only way we can ever
get rid of the corporate/legalistic complex that drinks our blood.
Post by islander
We have a
lot of work to do to get things to the point where the thieves can be
held accountable.
We still know how to make guillotines, don't we?
Maybe we can mass-produce them and sell them
to citizens who have private gripes with corporate
thieves. Sometimes there's no solution until "The
People" take control with harsh and effective
retributions.
Oh my, it's beginning to sound like Russia 1917 around here, and we
all know how that turned out -- or at least some of us do. By most
accounts 10 million died. That what you have in mind? Would 10 million
be sufficient to create your utopia?
That would have been Stalin's purge in the Ukraine. It had nothing to
do with capitalism or socialism and everything to do with Stalin's
brutality. But, you knew that already.
No. Wrong again. It was Lenin -- The October Revolution, and the
fighting that followed. I got that number from a Google search. Try it
Search parameter ... "how many died in the russian revolution"
Google's immediate answer ...
"Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000 democides.
Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997) 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and
disease. Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls - Necrometrics
necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm"
Other sources put it at 9 million ...
"Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9,000,000"
http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm
The Ukrainian genocide, the Holodomor, was 10 years later. How many
millions died is unknown -- but it was millions. Russia stole the land
of those millions of dead Ukrainians and moved in Russian settlers.
Ethnic Russian descendants of those settlers are now fighting to aid
Russia in annexing parts of Ukraine.
BTW -- "More people have died for notions of a socialist utopia than
for any other explicit political ideology."
"U.S.S.R.: 20 million deaths; China: 65 million deaths; Vietnam: 1
million deaths; North Korea: 2 million deaths; Cambodia: 2 million
deaths: Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths; Latin America: 150,000
deaths; Africa: 1.7 million deaths; Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths;
The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in
power: about 10,000 deaths… The total approaches 100 million people
killed."
https://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~hpcws/asreview.htm
I stand corrected. There were also 10M killed as a result of Stalin's
purge of the Ukraine, also known as the Holodomor. This was mostly due
to famine which some claim was intended by Stalin to punish the
Ukrainians for their opposition to Soviet rule.

The revolution in 1917 was one more chapter in a very violent Russian
history. The red terror was inflicted by the Bolsheviks and the white
terror was inflicted by the anti-Bolsheviks, all a consequence of
reaction to the abuses of the Tsars and the industrial revolution. It
was not a good time to be a Russian!
Rubber Dove
2018-01-12 21:56:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <463c2761-7153-46ef-a47c-
Post by b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
Racism wasn't a problem until liberals elected that nigger
Obama, and you bet your ass he and his butthole buddy Eric
Holder were nothing but nigger racists.

If Trump is a racist, you are too. If you hate yourself and
your kind that much, go fucking kill yourself. Jump off a
building.

We've had enough of the self-hating apologist white assholes who
find every possible reason to be offended for things they have
no business sticking their nose in.

If I were Trump, I'd take the person who leaked the comment from
that meeting for a plane ride, pump 2 gallons of napalm up his
or her ass, stuff a rag in it, light it and kick the jerk out
the door at 30,000 feet over New York City.

If you want poor, dumb, worthless, thieving, HIV infected
niggers from Africa and Haiti for neighbors, you pay for their
welfare, health care, education, food and housing from your pay
check. Keep your damned hands off mine.

Maybe you should have the Clintons pay back the $2 billion they
STOLE from Haiti after the earthquake. Isn't that the epitome
of racism?

Rich white democrats stealing US GOVERNMENT MONEY from poor
displaced niggers after a natural disaster?
Anonymous
2018-01-12 22:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rubber Dove
In article <463c2761-7153-46ef-a47c-
Post by b flanier
<
Can you imagine if Obama had said such a thing? The Republicans
would have been all over him like a bad suit. This Trump is a
racist. Think about it-30 to 40% of the peeps in this country
agree with him!! What have we become?
Racism wasn't a problem until
Racist scumbags like you voted for Trump, who was endorsed by the KKK.
d***@gmail.com
2018-01-12 21:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
PJay quoted the Washington Post:

"...Haiti and countries in Africa certainly lag behind the rest of the world by almost any measure. Haiti ranks as one of the world's least-developed countries, according to the United Nations..."

Haiti and the Dominican Republic are two countries that occupy the island of Hispaniola. France acquired one third of Hispaniola by treaty and settled black slaves from Africa there to grow sugar. Eventually, the French part of Hispaniola became Haiti.

We have a lot of Haitians here in Miami. Many of them work as taxi drivers, and I know a Haitian nurse pretty well. Many Haitians were brought here as temporary refugees following the big earthquake in 2010.

I would say that French slaves from Africa have not done as well as Spanish slaves from Africa or Anglo-American slaves from Africa. France had black colonies in French Equatorial Africa, so it may be that Haiti was treated like a French colony and given more autonomy sooner than elsewhere in the Americas. Haiti has been a mess politically and economically.

Eugene FitzAubrey
wolfbat359
2018-01-12 21:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by PJay OD
"...Haiti and countries in Africa certainly lag behind the rest of the world by almost any measure. Haiti ranks as one of the world's least-developed countries, according to the United Nations..."
Haiti and the Dominican Republic are two countries that occupy the island of Hispaniola. France acquired one third of Hispaniola by treaty and settled black slaves from Africa there to grow sugar. Eventually, the French part of Hispaniola became Haiti.
We have a lot of Haitians here in Miami. Many of them work as taxi drivers, and I know a Haitian nurse pretty well. Many Haitians were brought here as temporary refugees following the big earthquake in 2010.
I would say that French slaves from Africa have not done as well as Spanish slaves from Africa or Anglo-American slaves from Africa. France had black colonies in French Equatorial Africa, so it may be that Haiti was treated like a French colony and given more autonomy sooner than elsewhere in the Americas. Haiti has been a mess politically and economically.
Eugene FitzAubrey
And America and France had a lot to do with Haiti being in the condition it is in!
bill bowden
2018-01-19 03:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
Does this score card mean anything? It says the government made money from the bailout.

"When those revenues are taken into account, the government's profit totals $4.47 billion."

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-19 07:38:24 UTC
Permalink
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On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:11:10 -0800 (PST), bill bowden
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
Does this score card mean anything? It says the government made money from the bailout.
"When those revenues are taken into account, the government's profit totals $4.47 billion."
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
I'm the wrong person to ask. Nobody has ever accused me of being
an accountant. I used to do my own taxes, but it ruined the whole
first half of the month of April for me every year, even though my
taxes are a lot simpler than most people's since I don't own any
property.

I've been paying to have my taxes done for me the last four or five
years, because it drives me crazy to do them myself. I may try again
this year, though, but if I find myself discombobulating, I'll just
give everything to my accountant again and say "You do it!"

Tax people don't think the way I do. They have all these tedious
tables that you have to fill in and transfer bits from one line to
another, and may the Prophet help you if you make a mistake. I
usually found myself figuring out from the instructions what they
were trying to get at, then calculating by simple math what the
end result should be. Then I'd fill in the tables and make sure I
ended up with the same result. If it didn't, the error was always
in my entering stuff in the tables, every time, never in my math.

There's also the dread beast of "Alternative Minimum Tax",
but praise Allah I've never had to deal with that myself.
bill bowden
2018-01-19 20:48:09 UTC
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Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:11:10 -0800 (PST), bill bowden
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
Does this score card mean anything? It says the government made money from the bailout.
"When those revenues are taken into account, the government's profit totals $4.47 billion."
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
I'm the wrong person to ask. Nobody has ever accused me of being
an accountant. I used to do my own taxes, but it ruined the whole
first half of the month of April for me every year, even though my
taxes are a lot simpler than most people's since I don't own any
property.
I've been paying to have my taxes done for me the last four or five
years, because it drives me crazy to do them myself. I may try again
this year, though, but if I find myself discombobulating, I'll just
give everything to my accountant again and say "You do it!"
Tax people don't think the way I do. They have all these tedious
tables that you have to fill in and transfer bits from one line to
another, and may the Prophet help you if you make a mistake. I
usually found myself figuring out from the instructions what they
were trying to get at, then calculating by simple math what the
end result should be. Then I'd fill in the tables and make sure I
ended up with the same result. If it didn't, the error was always
in my entering stuff in the tables, every time, never in my math.
There's also the dread beast of "Alternative Minimum Tax",
but praise Allah I've never had to deal with that myself.
You can probably use a program like 'Turbo Tax' to make things easier. I think it just asks questions about income, capital gains, dividends, etc and then prints the forms with everything on the right lines. It might even file the return online so you don't need a stamp or any paper.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-20 02:47:12 UTC
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On Fri, 19 Jan 2018 12:48:09 -0800 (PST), bill bowden
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:11:10 -0800 (PST), bill bowden
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I trust J.P.Morgan to be impartial about as much as I
trust a mosquito not to bite me. They're a bank or
something like that. Do you remember the bailouts?
$12 billion for J.P.Morgan. Nothing for me.
Does this score card mean anything? It says the government made money from the bailout.
"When those revenues are taken into account, the government's profit totals $4.47 billion."
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
I'm the wrong person to ask. Nobody has ever accused me of being
an accountant. I used to do my own taxes, but it ruined the whole
first half of the month of April for me every year, even though my
taxes are a lot simpler than most people's since I don't own any
property.
I've been paying to have my taxes done for me the last four or five
years, because it drives me crazy to do them myself. I may try again
this year, though, but if I find myself discombobulating, I'll just
give everything to my accountant again and say "You do it!"
Tax people don't think the way I do. They have all these tedious
tables that you have to fill in and transfer bits from one line to
another, and may the Prophet help you if you make a mistake. I
usually found myself figuring out from the instructions what they
were trying to get at, then calculating by simple math what the
end result should be. Then I'd fill in the tables and make sure I
ended up with the same result. If it didn't, the error was always
in my entering stuff in the tables, every time, never in my math.
There's also the dread beast of "Alternative Minimum Tax",
but praise Allah I've never had to deal with that myself.
You can probably use a program like 'Turbo Tax' to make things easier. I think it just asks questions about income, capital gains, dividends, etc and then prints the forms with everything on the right lines. It might even file the return online so you don't need a stamp or any paper.
I used Turbo Tax for several years. The calculation
is fine, but inputting the data is a problem because it's
so easy to miss something. I got a letter from the IRS
demanding more money one year because I had
missed something. I'm sure whatever I missed must
have been in the 1099's I sent in along with my return,
because although they charged me a small amount of
interest, they didn't charge me a penalty. When and if
I try to do my taxes myself this year, I'll go back to
doing them by hand, because that's the only way I can
be sure I'm not being led astray by the program.
When I do taxes by hand, I have my 1099's in front of
me so I know if I've accounted for everything, rather
than relying on a tax program to prompt me to enter
this and that at weird places, and often where I have
to enter more than one thing in the same weird place
but there's no way, for me at least, to realize that,
because I don't know what the heck the tax program
is doing.

Actually there are more ways to be led astray.
I got a bill last year for a small amount of
unreported income from five years earlier, about
$5,000. I tore my hair out trying to find what
they were talking about, including looking over
my bank deposits, but couldn't find it. I spent a
whole day trying to get an answer from the IRS
about what the heck this was, until one person
at the IRS (to whom I was transferred by an
independent agency that helps taxpayers) asked
if I had received any interest from government
bonds that year. During the conversation, I
became aware that although the government
requires all private sources to produce 1099's,
the government doesn't bother to send them
out for its own disbursements! The helpful
lady at the IRS (the only person I talked to at
the IRS who was helpful at all) said "Most
people remember when they get interest", to
which I responded in astonishment, "I don't!"
I found the $5,000, helped by the information
she gave me, and the reason I hadn't been
able to find it in my bank records was because
it wasn't there as a separate entity. It was
the interest portion of a deposit of $30,000 or
so, which was the check I had gotten from
the government when I cashed in the bonds,
including both my original investment and
the accrued interest, without any breakdown.
bill bowden
2018-01-20 04:37:55 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I used Turbo Tax for several years. The calculation
is fine, but inputting the data is a problem because it's
so easy to miss something. I got a letter from the IRS
demanding more money one year because I had
missed something. I'm sure whatever I missed must
have been in the 1099's I sent in along with my return,
because although they charged me a small amount of
interest, they didn't charge me a penalty. When and if
I try to do my taxes myself this year, I'll go back to
doing them by hand, because that's the only way I can
be sure I'm not being led astray by the program.
When I do taxes by hand, I have my 1099's in front of
me so I know if I've accounted for everything, rather
than relying on a tax program to prompt me to enter
this and that at weird places, and often where I have
to enter more than one thing in the same weird place
but there's no way, for me at least, to realize that,
because I don't know what the heck the tax program
is doing.
Actually there are more ways to be led astray.
I got a bill last year for a small amount of
unreported income from five years earlier, about
$5,000. I tore my hair out trying to find what
they were talking about, including looking over
my bank deposits, but couldn't find it. I spent a
whole day trying to get an answer from the IRS
about what the heck this was, until one person
at the IRS (to whom I was transferred by an
independent agency that helps taxpayers) asked
if I had received any interest from government
bonds that year. During the conversation, I
became aware that although the government
requires all private sources to produce 1099's,
the government doesn't bother to send them
out for its own disbursements! The helpful
lady at the IRS (the only person I talked to at
the IRS who was helpful at all) said "Most
people remember when they get interest", to
which I responded in astonishment, "I don't!"
I found the $5,000, helped by the information
she gave me, and the reason I hadn't been
able to find it in my bank records was because
it wasn't there as a separate entity. It was
the interest portion of a deposit of $30,000 or
so, which was the check I had gotten from
the government when I cashed in the bonds,
including both my original investment and
the accrued interest, without any breakdown.
My tax return for year 2015 is 35 pages long. There is no way I would do that by hand. And I didn't owe any tax, so technically I don't need to file a tax return at all since I don't owe any tax. But of course they would audit me if I tried that. I own a partial interest in a small business doing taxes, so they do my taxes for free. But we never make a profit so everything is break even or a loss. It's all smoke and mirrors. Here's some of the crap I had to file.

form 8879
form 9325
form 1040
Schedule D
Schedule E
form 4797
form 8960
form 540 state
form 3805V state
Cawk_D
Cawk_IRA
Cawk_AGI
Cawk_CLC

And a ton of other pages trying to explain what it's all about.

But I still don't owe any tax after 35 pages. I think the greatest accomplishment for Trump is getting rid of most of this useless paper work. But I suppose the state tax paper-work will stay the same.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-20 05:07:40 UTC
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On Fri, 19 Jan 2018 20:37:55 -0800 (PST), bill bowden
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I used Turbo Tax for several years. The calculation
is fine, but inputting the data is a problem because it's
so easy to miss something. I got a letter from the IRS
demanding more money one year because I had
missed something. I'm sure whatever I missed must
have been in the 1099's I sent in along with my return,
because although they charged me a small amount of
interest, they didn't charge me a penalty. When and if
I try to do my taxes myself this year, I'll go back to
doing them by hand, because that's the only way I can
be sure I'm not being led astray by the program.
When I do taxes by hand, I have my 1099's in front of
me so I know if I've accounted for everything, rather
than relying on a tax program to prompt me to enter
this and that at weird places, and often where I have
to enter more than one thing in the same weird place
but there's no way, for me at least, to realize that,
because I don't know what the heck the tax program
is doing.
Actually there are more ways to be led astray.
I got a bill last year for a small amount of
unreported income from five years earlier, about
$5,000. I tore my hair out trying to find what
they were talking about, including looking over
my bank deposits, but couldn't find it. I spent a
whole day trying to get an answer from the IRS
about what the heck this was, until one person
at the IRS (to whom I was transferred by an
independent agency that helps taxpayers) asked
if I had received any interest from government
bonds that year. During the conversation, I
became aware that although the government
requires all private sources to produce 1099's,
the government doesn't bother to send them
out for its own disbursements! The helpful
lady at the IRS (the only person I talked to at
the IRS who was helpful at all) said "Most
people remember when they get interest", to
which I responded in astonishment, "I don't!"
I found the $5,000, helped by the information
she gave me, and the reason I hadn't been
able to find it in my bank records was because
it wasn't there as a separate entity. It was
the interest portion of a deposit of $30,000 or
so, which was the check I had gotten from
the government when I cashed in the bonds,
including both my original investment and
the accrued interest, without any breakdown.
My tax return for year 2015 is 35 pages long.
That's why I don't want to own property!
Post by bill bowden
There is no way I would do that by hand. And I didn't owe any tax, so technically I don't need to file a tax return at all since I don't owe any tax. But of course they would audit me if I tried that. I own a partial interest in a small business doing taxes, so they do my taxes for free. But we never make a profit so everything is break even or a loss. It's all smoke and mirrors. Here's some of the crap I had to file.
form 8879
form 9325
form 1040
Schedule D
Schedule E
form 4797
form 8960
form 540 state
form 3805V state
Cawk_D
Cawk_IRA
Cawk_AGI
Cawk_CLC
And a ton of other pages trying to explain what it's all about.
But I still don't owe any tax after 35 pages. I think the greatest accomplishment for Trump is getting rid of most of this useless paper work. But I suppose the state tax paper-work will stay the same.
Is he actually going to do that? It's been my experience that
whenever the gummt says it's going to "simplify" taxes, it ends
up making them more complicated, because the government's
idea of "simplifying" is adding more, and more unintelligible,
forms.
islander
2018-01-20 15:24:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by bill bowden
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I used Turbo Tax for several years. The calculation
is fine, but inputting the data is a problem because it's
so easy to miss something. I got a letter from the IRS
demanding more money one year because I had
missed something. I'm sure whatever I missed must
have been in the 1099's I sent in along with my return,
because although they charged me a small amount of
interest, they didn't charge me a penalty. When and if
I try to do my taxes myself this year, I'll go back to
doing them by hand, because that's the only way I can
be sure I'm not being led astray by the program.
When I do taxes by hand, I have my 1099's in front of
me so I know if I've accounted for everything, rather
than relying on a tax program to prompt me to enter
this and that at weird places, and often where I have
to enter more than one thing in the same weird place
but there's no way, for me at least, to realize that,
because I don't know what the heck the tax program
is doing.
Actually there are more ways to be led astray.
I got a bill last year for a small amount of
unreported income from five years earlier, about
$5,000. I tore my hair out trying to find what
they were talking about, including looking over
my bank deposits, but couldn't find it. I spent a
whole day trying to get an answer from the IRS
about what the heck this was, until one person
at the IRS (to whom I was transferred by an
independent agency that helps taxpayers) asked
if I had received any interest from government
bonds that year. During the conversation, I
became aware that although the government
requires all private sources to produce 1099's,
the government doesn't bother to send them
out for its own disbursements! The helpful
lady at the IRS (the only person I talked to at
the IRS who was helpful at all) said "Most
people remember when they get interest", to
which I responded in astonishment, "I don't!"
I found the $5,000, helped by the information
she gave me, and the reason I hadn't been
able to find it in my bank records was because
it wasn't there as a separate entity. It was
the interest portion of a deposit of $30,000 or
so, which was the check I had gotten from
the government when I cashed in the bonds,
including both my original investment and
the accrued interest, without any breakdown.
My tax return for year 2015 is 35 pages long. There is no way I would do that by hand. And I didn't owe any tax, so technically I don't need to file a tax return at all since I don't owe any tax. But of course they would audit me if I tried that. I own a partial interest in a small business doing taxes, so they do my taxes for free. But we never make a profit so everything is break even or a loss. It's all smoke and mirrors. Here's some of the crap I had to file.
form 8879
form 9325
form 1040
Schedule D
Schedule E
form 4797
form 8960
form 540 state
form 3805V state
Cawk_D
Cawk_IRA
Cawk_AGI
Cawk_CLC
And a ton of other pages trying to explain what it's all about.
But I still don't owe any tax after 35 pages. I think the greatest accomplishment for Trump is getting rid of most of this useless paper work. But I suppose the state tax paper-work will stay the same.
From what I have been able to tell so far, you will probably not see a
reduction in the paperwork in your tax return. Individuals who itemize
deductions will have a higher threshold for the standard deduction, so
fewer people will itemize. But the amount of paperwork to claim
exemptions will probably increase.

IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.

Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.

Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-20 16:22:00 UTC
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Raw Message
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.

The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.

Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
Post by islander
Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
El Castor
2018-01-20 19:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.

As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...

Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-20 23:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 11:39:43 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
Perhaps not, but except for the one year I didn't take
the Standard Deduction, I've never given enough away
to charities to exceed that standard deduction.
Post by El Castor
As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...
Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Sure, but many, maybe most, of the people in those
groups still pay a smaller PROPORTION of their actual
income in taxes, as Warren Buffet (an honest rich
man - will wonders never cease!) said that his secretary
paid a higher proportion of her earnings in taxes than
he did.

Adam Smith didn't say that the rich should merely
pay the same rate or less than other people, he
said "but something more in proportion."
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-01-21 01:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 11:39:43 -0800, El Castor
{snip)
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
The French figured it out somehow.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...
Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Sure, but many, maybe most, of the people in those
groups still pay a smaller PROPORTION of their actual
income in taxes, as Warren Buffet (an honest rich
man - will wonders never cease!) said that his secretary
paid a higher proportion of her earnings in taxes than
he did.
Only the top of the top pay a smaller proportion because they take
advantage of the capital gains differential.
El Castor
2018-01-21 21:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:20:05 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 11:39:43 -0800, El Castor
{snip)
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
The French figured it out somehow.
Probably have far fewer deductions -- if any. The mortgage interest
deduction, for instance, never made sense to me. People make house
affordability decisions based on the total annual cost, relative to
their assets and income. If their was no deduction, they would just
pay less for the house -- meaning that housing would cost less. I
understand that at one time there was a deduction for survivors of the
Armenian holocaust.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...
Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Sure, but many, maybe most, of the people in those
groups still pay a smaller PROPORTION of their actual
income in taxes, as Warren Buffet (an honest rich
man - will wonders never cease!) said that his secretary
paid a higher proportion of her earnings in taxes than
he did.
Only the top of the top pay a smaller proportion because they take
advantage of the capital gains differential.
A bipartisan analysis from Pew ...
"All but the top-earning 20% of American families pay more in payroll
taxes than in federal income taxes, according to a Treasury Department
analysis.
Still, that analysis confirms that, after all federal taxes are
factored in, the U.S. tax system as a whole is progressive. The top
0.1% of families pay the equivalent of 39.2% and the bottom 20% have
negative tax rates (that is, they get more money back from the
government in the form of refundable tax credits than they pay in
taxes)."
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/13/high-income-americans-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/

There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-21 22:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:19 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
I spotted "antifa" in my initial glance-over, so I figured
the rest wouldn't be worth reading, especially since I
spotted "neo-communists" not far underneath it.
El Castor
2018-01-22 10:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:19 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
I spotted "antifa" in my initial glance-over, so I figured
the rest wouldn't be worth reading, especially since I
spotted "neo-communists" not far underneath it.
Hmmm. See yourself in any of that? (-8
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-22 11:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 02:12:27 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:19 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
I spotted "antifa" in my initial glance-over, so I figured
the rest wouldn't be worth reading, especially since I
spotted "neo-communists" not far underneath it.
Hmmm. See yourself in any of that? (-8
I didn't read it.
El Castor
2018-01-23 00:38:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 02:12:27 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:19 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
I spotted "antifa" in my initial glance-over, so I figured
the rest wouldn't be worth reading, especially since I
spotted "neo-communists" not far underneath it.
Hmmm. See yourself in any of that? (-8
I didn't read it.
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-01-23 03:50:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:38:53 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 02:12:27 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:18:19 -0800, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
I spotted "antifa" in my initial glance-over, so I figured
the rest wouldn't be worth reading, especially since I
spotted "neo-communists" not far underneath it.
Hmmm. See yourself in any of that? (-8
I didn't read it.
There is a sentiment on the Left that top income earners are crooks,
unworthy of their wealth -- a wealth which they have accumulated on
the backs of the poor, exploitation of the middle class, a cleverly
crafted tax code, etc. The undeserving rich should be punished for
their greed by having their wealth taxed away in their lifetimes, and
whatever is left, confiscated when they die. That psychology is (I
believe) very dangerous. It not only undermines our economic system,
but in it's more extreme forms killed 100 million in the 20th century,
has bankrupted Venezuela, and fuels the loons behind Antifa and the
occupy Wall Street crowd. As I believe Eugene FitzAubrey would put it
-- Neo Communists.
Too much spin just in your summary.
bill bowden
2018-01-21 01:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
Yes, but they do know about my IRA distributions and health care coverage. Why should I fill out 2 forms listing that stuff? And they know about capital gains as well. So what's the use of schedule D?
Post by El Castor
As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...
Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
islander
2018-01-21 01:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by bill bowden
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
Yes, but they do know about my IRA distributions and health care coverage. Why should I fill out 2 forms listing that stuff? And they know about capital gains as well. So what's the use of schedule D?
There are a lot of uses for Schedule D where the IRS may not know the
details. For example, if you sell that antique car in your garage, you
will need to declare the capital gains. Likewise that piece of art that
you bought from a street vendor years ago and which is now worth
thousands. I don't know to what extent they actually know the cost
basis for your Amazon stock, if at all. I also don't know how
thoroughly they check, but if you ever forget to list something and it
shows up in someone elses filing, you may claim that you forgot, but you
will at least be charged a penalty. Yes, Schedule D can be quite useful.
Post by bill bowden
Post by El Castor
As for the rich not paying taxes -- here is who pays the federal
income tax ...
Top 1% 39.04%
Top 5% 59.58%
Top 10% 70.59%
Bottom 50% 2.83%
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/page/who-pays-income-taxes
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Depending on how long the government is shut down, the IRS will probably
be late in getting forms and information out. Thanks, Trump!
bill bowden
2018-01-22 19:48:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by bill bowden
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
Yes, but they do know about my IRA distributions and health care coverage. Why should I fill out 2 forms listing that stuff? And they know about capital gains as well. So what's the use of schedule D?
There are a lot of uses for Schedule D where the IRS may not know the
details. For example, if you sell that antique car in your garage, you
will need to declare the capital gains. Likewise that piece of art that
you bought from a street vendor years ago and which is now worth
thousands. I don't know to what extent they actually know the cost
basis for your Amazon stock, if at all. I also don't know how
thoroughly they check, but if you ever forget to list something and it
shows up in someone elses filing, you may claim that you forgot, but you
will at least be charged a penalty. Yes, Schedule D can be quite useful.
My amazon stock is in a IRA account so there are no taxes unless I draw the money out. It's done pretty well today and is 1317 a share and I only paid 998 six months ago. I'm making about $2 a day on one share of amazon. As for people buying things from a street vendor and making a profit, I doubt any of that is reported. IRS will never control the underground economy. I make about $10 a week selling stuff at the swap meet. I don't keep track of it, I may be selling at a loss, I don't know. My tax people said that anything under $600 doesn't need to be reported. IRS doesn't care about nickles and dimes.
bill bowden
2018-01-23 20:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by bill bowden
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by islander
IIRC, your California return basically uses the federal data. It has
been a while, so I may be mistaken.
That seems pretty much right to me. I've only once "itemized"
though. and I sure wouldn't want ever to have to do that again,
so I really can't say for all cases.
Post by islander
Otherwise, it is to the advantage of the large companies to keep tax
returns complicated since they benefit from complexity that small
companies cannot afford to deal with. That won't change.
And it's why taxes are so awful in America that many
people prefer to pay tax preparers. You may recall
that Earl in this newsgroup mentioned that although his
American taxes were a nightmare, his French taxes
were a piece of cake. The French government just
sent him a page stating his earnings and what his
taxes were, and he could send it back with a check or
with a letter explaining why he disagreed.
The US government knows the same kind of info
as the French government of course, or it would never
be able to catch unintentional or intentional errors.
I'd guess the reason all Americans have to go through
the American tax-calculation nightmare is so that a
few fabulously rich corporate crooks in cahoots with
the political establishment can slither out of paying
some or all their taxes.
Call me cynical. It's the approach with the best
chances of being correct.
The Feds don't know about your charitable contributions, medical
bills, or a zillion other possible deductions.
Yes, but they do know about my IRA distributions and health care coverage. Why should I fill out 2 forms listing that stuff? And they know about capital gains as well. So what's the use of schedule D?
There are a lot of uses for Schedule D where the IRS may not know the
details. For example, if you sell that antique car in your garage, you
will need to declare the capital gains. Likewise that piece of art that
you bought from a street vendor years ago and which is now worth
thousands. I don't know to what extent they actually know the cost
basis for your Amazon stock, if at all. I also don't know how
thoroughly they check, but if you ever forget to list something and it
shows up in someone elses filing, you may claim that you forgot, but you
will at least be charged a penalty. Yes, Schedule D can be quite useful.
My amazon stock is in a IRA account so there are no taxes unless I draw the money out. It's done pretty well today and is 1317 a share and I only paid 998 six months ago. I'm making about $2 a day on one share of amazon. As for people buying things from a street vendor and making a profit, I doubt any of that is reported. IRS will never control the underground economy. I make about $10 a week selling stuff at the swap meet. I don't keep track of it, I may be selling at a loss, I don't know. My tax people said that anything under $600 doesn't need to be reported. IRS doesn't care about nickles and >dimes.
Correction. AMZN is up 29 today so I'm earning $3 a day, not 2.

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