Discussion:
Russian Network RT Must Register As Foreign Agent
(too old to reply)
El Castor
2017-09-13 07:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-13 12:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
El Castor
2017-09-13 17:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-13 19:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
El Castor
2017-09-14 03:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-14 05:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia. That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.

Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Crimea, Ukraine:
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.

It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
El Castor
2017-09-14 17:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.

Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-14 17:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
El Castor
2017-09-14 18:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
If you don't like it here, Mother England awaits. Please don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-14 19:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:41 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
If you don't like it here, Mother England awaits. Please don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Ho hum, the routine fascist response. "America, love it
or leave it." - America of course being whatever the
speaker says it is. Never changing didn't work for General
Lee and it won't work forever for you either. Things evolve,
despite fierce and often temporarily successful resistance.
El Castor
2017-09-15 00:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:41 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
If you don't like it here, Mother England awaits. Please don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Ho hum, the routine fascist response. "America, love it
or leave it." - America of course being whatever the
speaker says it is. Never changing didn't work for General
Lee and it won't work forever for you either. Things evolve,
despite fierce and often temporarily successful resistance.
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-15 00:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:41 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
If you don't like it here, Mother England awaits. Please don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Ho hum, the routine fascist response. "America, love it
or leave it." - America of course being whatever the
speaker says it is. Never changing didn't work for General
Lee and it won't work forever for you either. Things evolve,
despite fierce and often temporarily successful resistance.
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
El Castor
2017-09-15 04:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:43:41 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's
far more glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of
American propaganda always, since WWII, been intended to
damage first the USSR and then Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very
glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It can of
course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense
or bear any relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of
the USA have been played for fools, over and over and over,
by the US news media in collaboration with mysterious and
not-so-mysterious forces deep within the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful
consortia that exert their influence on the US government
toward their own benefit and the hell with the people of the
US? We need an antidote. RT has its own agenda but it's
also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that
care only for their own bottom-line and nothing for the
welfare of the people or even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is
not going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
If you don't like it here, Mother England awaits. Please don't let the
door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Ho hum, the routine fascist response. "America, love it
or leave it." - America of course being whatever the
speaker says it is. Never changing didn't work for General
Lee and it won't work forever for you either. Things evolve,
despite fierce and often temporarily successful resistance.
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be, but I am fond of Marin, and can't stand humidity. Just
curious -- do you believe that Berkeley's masked ANTIFA activists that
show up with clubs and goggles whenever a conservative attempts to
speak at UC should be arrested and thrown in jail -- and the invited
conservatives allowed to speak?
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-15 12:22:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Post by El Castor
but I am fond of Marin, and can't stand humidity.
Just
curious -- do you believe that Berkeley's masked ANTIFA activists that
show up with clubs and goggles whenever a conservative attempts to
speak at UC should be arrested and thrown in jail -- and the invited
conservatives allowed to speak?
Different topic. Post it in a new thread if you want.
Maybe I'll be one of the people who reply, maybe not.
El Castor
2017-09-15 19:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
but I am fond of Marin, and can't stand humidity.
Just
curious -- do you believe that Berkeley's masked ANTIFA activists that
show up with clubs and goggles whenever a conservative attempts to
speak at UC should be arrested and thrown in jail -- and the invited
conservatives allowed to speak?
Different topic. Post it in a new thread if you want.
Maybe I'll be one of the people who reply, maybe not.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-15 23:28:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA. If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.

I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
but I am fond of Marin, and can't stand humidity.
Just
curious -- do you believe that Berkeley's masked ANTIFA activists that
show up with clubs and goggles whenever a conservative attempts to
speak at UC should be arrested and thrown in jail -- and the invited
conservatives allowed to speak?
Different topic. Post it in a new thread if you want.
Maybe I'll be one of the people who reply, maybe not.
Dan C
2017-09-16 02:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you do not care about the
integrity of the USA, because those diminish the USA. If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them can be justified just on
the basis of showing who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it in the ancient world.
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?

Why are you still here?
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he dropped the razor on his gonads.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg
El Castor
2017-09-16 07:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you do not care about the
integrity of the USA, because those diminish the USA. If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them can be justified just on
the basis of showing who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it in the ancient world.
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-16 10:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:31:05 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you do not care about the
integrity of the USA, because those diminish the USA. If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them can be justified just on
the basis of showing who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it in the ancient world.
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
Buddying up with Dan C, eh? That is analogous to the
USA buddying up with Saudi Arabia, so there's a certain
consistency to it.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-16 15:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
And here I thought you were a champion of Freedom of Speech.
El Castor
2017-09-16 19:03:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 08:30:08 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
And here I thought you were a champion of Freedom of Speech.
Oh I am, but doesn't the First Amendment only apply to US citizens?
(-8
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-16 22:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 08:30:08 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
And here I thought you were a champion of Freedom of Speech.
Oh I am, but doesn't the First Amendment only apply to US citizens?
(-8
Nope, but from the smiley I bet you already knew that.
El Castor
2017-09-17 00:53:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:53:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 08:30:08 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong. That's "a lot" wrong.
If you hate America so much, why don't you fucking leave?
Why are you still here?
Good question. He is here as a guest. If someone visited my home, and
then proceeded to tell me what an ass hole I was, I think I'd ask him
to leave.
And here I thought you were a champion of Freedom of Speech.
Oh I am, but doesn't the First Amendment only apply to US citizens?
(-8
Nope, but from the smiley I bet you already knew that.
I did suspect, but I was sure you would straighten me out. (-8
El Castor
2017-09-16 07:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
but I am fond of Marin, and can't stand humidity.
Just
curious -- do you believe that Berkeley's masked ANTIFA activists that
show up with clubs and goggles whenever a conservative attempts to
speak at UC should be arrested and thrown in jail -- and the invited
conservatives allowed to speak?
Different topic. Post it in a new thread if you want.
Maybe I'll be one of the people who reply, maybe not.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-16 10:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.

Here they are again, if you don't want
to look back or would rather not be reminded:

Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Crimea, Ukraine:


<snip>
El Castor
2017-09-16 19:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.
Here they are again, if you don't want
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Got to go, but don't assume I have read all your posts. Just for
starters -- what war crimes did we commit in Palestine and Saudi
Arabia?
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-16 20:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
\On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 12:07:30 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.
Here they are again, if you don't want
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Got to go, but don't assume I have read all your posts. Just for
starters -- what war crimes did we commit in Palestine and Saudi
Arabia?
I didn't say we committed war crimes in Saudi
Arabia. That's just your routine confabulation.

As to Palestine: Gaza and lebensraum, with
nothing but perfunctory objection from the USA.
El Castor
2017-09-17 00:40:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
\On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 12:07:30 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.
Here they are again, if you don't want
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Got to go, but don't assume I have read all your posts. Just for
starters -- what war crimes did we commit in Palestine and Saudi
Arabia?
I didn't say we committed war crimes in Saudi
Arabia. That's just your routine confabulation.
As to Palestine: Gaza and lebensraum, with
nothing but perfunctory objection from the USA.
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?

Israel tried for years to return Gaza to Egypt, and Egypt wanted no
part of it. Clinton, and his negotiator, Dennis Ross, came up with a
genuinely marvelous plan, that included Gaza, and the Arabs responded
with the Second Intifada. When Israel gave up and cut Gaza loose, the
Arabs responded with more than 11,000 rockets fired into Israel. This
is apparently evidence of a perfunctory failing of the United States?

You may be tempted to go to Gaza to celebrate this or that with Hamas,
but I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
"Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex"
http://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343
"Palestinian gays flee to Israel"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-17 13:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 17:40:49 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
Look it up.
Post by El Castor
Israel tried for years to return Gaza to Egypt, and Egypt wanted no
part of it. Clinton, and his negotiator, Dennis Ross, came up with a
genuinely marvelous plan, that included Gaza, and the Arabs responded
with the Second Intifada. When Israel gave up and cut Gaza loose, the
Arabs responded with more than 11,000 rockets fired into Israel. This
is apparently evidence of a perfunctory failing of the United States?
Yes, every people should surrender their
identity and destiny to the will of the United
States and its allies and just shut up about it.
Post by El Castor
You may be tempted to go to Gaza to celebrate this or that with Hamas,
but I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
"Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex"
http://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343
"Palestinian gays flee to Israel"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm
El Castor
2017-09-17 15:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 17:40:49 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
Look it up.
Post by El Castor
Israel tried for years to return Gaza to Egypt, and Egypt wanted no
part of it. Clinton, and his negotiator, Dennis Ross, came up with a
genuinely marvelous plan, that included Gaza, and the Arabs responded
with the Second Intifada. When Israel gave up and cut Gaza loose, the
Arabs responded with more than 11,000 rockets fired into Israel. This
is apparently evidence of a perfunctory failing of the United States?
Yes, every people should surrender their
identity and destiny to the will of the United
States and its allies and just shut up about it.
There is a lot more to Israel than the United States. Nearly half the
Jews in the world live there. Israel is a product of Hitler and the
holocaust. Jewish refugees that survived the Holocaust poured out of
Europe and bought (yes, bought) land and homes in Israel. Arab armies
lined up and announced they were going to massacre the Jews -- every
last one. The Jews fought back, and here we are today.

During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?

Read all about the Clinton peace proposal from the lips of his
negotiator ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html

Islam wants only one thing -- dead Jews, and this is all due to
Germany, not the US. BTW, after 1948, nearly a million Jews were
ejected from Arab countries with nothing more than the clothes on
their back -- their homes and businesses stolen.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
You may be tempted to go to Gaza to celebrate this or that with Hamas,
but I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
"Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex"
http://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343
"Palestinian gays flee to Israel"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-17 15:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 17:40:49 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
Look it up.
Post by El Castor
Israel tried for years to return Gaza to Egypt, and Egypt wanted no
part of it. Clinton, and his negotiator, Dennis Ross, came up with a
genuinely marvelous plan, that included Gaza, and the Arabs responded
with the Second Intifada. When Israel gave up and cut Gaza loose, the
Arabs responded with more than 11,000 rockets fired into Israel. This
is apparently evidence of a perfunctory failing of the United States?
Yes, every people should surrender their
identity and destiny to the will of the United
States and its allies and just shut up about it.
There is a lot more to Israel than the United States. Nearly half the
Jews in the world live there. Israel is a product of Hitler and the
holocaust. Jewish refugees that survived the Holocaust poured out of
Europe and bought (yes, bought) land and homes in Israel. Arab armies
lined up and announced they were going to massacre the Jews -- every
last one. The Jews fought back, and here we are today.
Nobody's a bigger fan of Jews than myself but admit
it if you can: the incoming Jews were taking over a
country that had been occupied primarily by the
Palestinian people for 2000 years since the Diaspora.
You expect them to just say "yes master" if there's
any hope of not just giving up and going wherever the
invaders send them.

You probably can't admit that, or will throw up
all kinds of barricades to block out the sight of it.

The Cherokee would probably like to get the
Carolinas back too, but they're even more utterly
defeated than the Palestinians.
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
Post by El Castor
Read all about the Clinton peace proposal from the lips of his
negotiator ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html
Islam wants only one thing -- dead Jews, and this is all due to
Germany, not the US. BTW, after 1948, nearly a million Jews were
ejected from Arab countries with nothing more than the clothes on
their back -- their homes and businesses stolen.
The USA is the biggest ally of Jewish Israel, so you can't
lay pushing out the Palestinians entirely on Germany.
Blame the English too, even though Jewish "terrorists"
massacred a whole bunch of them at one point during the
takeover.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
You may be tempted to go to Gaza to celebrate this or that with Hamas,
but I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
More phony misdirection. Maybe psychoanalysis might
help you.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
"Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex"
http://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343
"Palestinian gays flee to Israel"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm
I'm not saying the Palestinians are peaches, any more
than I say the Yemenis who are doubtless even more
anti-gay are peaches, but that's a different matter. You
just can't help yourself which it comes to trying to divert
argumentation away from a main point. It seems your
neighbors must point that out to you too, unless you don't
have anything to do with them because they're Democrats.
El Castor
2017-09-17 20:29:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 17:40:49 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
Look it up.
Post by El Castor
Israel tried for years to return Gaza to Egypt, and Egypt wanted no
part of it. Clinton, and his negotiator, Dennis Ross, came up with a
genuinely marvelous plan, that included Gaza, and the Arabs responded
with the Second Intifada. When Israel gave up and cut Gaza loose, the
Arabs responded with more than 11,000 rockets fired into Israel. This
is apparently evidence of a perfunctory failing of the United States?
Yes, every people should surrender their
identity and destiny to the will of the United
States and its allies and just shut up about it.
There is a lot more to Israel than the United States. Nearly half the
Jews in the world live there. Israel is a product of Hitler and the
holocaust. Jewish refugees that survived the Holocaust poured out of
Europe and bought (yes, bought) land and homes in Israel. Arab armies
lined up and announced they were going to massacre the Jews -- every
last one. The Jews fought back, and here we are today.
Nobody's a bigger fan of Jews than myself but admit
it if you can: the incoming Jews were taking over a
country that had been occupied primarily by the
Palestinian people for 2000 years since the Diaspora.
You expect them to just say "yes master" if there's
any hope of not just giving up and going wherever the
invaders send them.
You probably can't admit that, or will throw up
all kinds of barricades to block out the sight of it.
The Cherokee would probably like to get the
Carolinas back too, but they're even more utterly
defeated than the Palestinians.
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Read all about the Clinton peace proposal from the lips of his
negotiator ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html
Islam wants only one thing -- dead Jews, and this is all due to
Germany, not the US. BTW, after 1948, nearly a million Jews were
ejected from Arab countries with nothing more than the clothes on
their back -- their homes and businesses stolen.
The USA is the biggest ally of Jewish Israel, so you can't
lay pushing out the Palestinians entirely on Germany.
Blame the English too, even though Jewish "terrorists"
massacred a whole bunch of them at one point during the
takeover.
The US came along later. What should we do? Boycott Israel. Refuse to
sell them weapons to defend themselves, and let the Muslims kill every
last Jew -- which is exactly what they have wanted to do from day one.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
You may be tempted to go to Gaza to celebrate this or that with Hamas,
but I wouldn't do that if I were you ...
More phony misdirection. Maybe psychoanalysis might
help you.
Still quite true. Gay men are welcome in Israel, but would be executed
by your friends in Gaza.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
"Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex"
http://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343
"Palestinian gays flee to Israel"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm
I'm not saying the Palestinians are peaches, any more
than I say the Yemenis who are doubtless even more
anti-gay are peaches, but that's a different matter. You
just can't help yourself which it comes to trying to divert
argumentation away from a main point. It seems your
neighbors must point that out to you too, unless you don't
have anything to do with them because they're Democrats.
I was at one time a big supporter of the Palestinians -- so
enthusiastic that the Israeli embassy returned my letters unopened,
and Jordan invited me to a national day party at their embassy. But I
finally began reading about the Jewish side of the story, and drifted
over to neutral. Then Clinton made his very fair offer, one that had
already been cleared with Israel, and the Saudis, who were going to
participate in the financing. I realized then that it was true -- the
Palestinians do not want peace, they are only interested in blood.
Whether you like Israel or not, there has to be a better solution than
killing 6 million people.

The offer ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html

Two interesting videos ...


rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-18 01:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:29:11 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
An imposition is not a "marvellous offer" for the
Palestinians any more than it was for the Cherokee.
El Castor
2017-09-18 06:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:29:11 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
An imposition is not a "marvellous offer" for the
Palestinians any more than it was for the Cherokee.
Why was that? Did you read the offer, and did you watch the videos? By
the way, Dennis Ross also worked for Obama, so he wasn't some
Republican plant.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-18 07:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:29:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:29:11 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
An imposition is not a "marvellous offer" for the
Palestinians any more than it was for the Cherokee.
Why was that? Did you read the offer, and did you watch the videos?
No, I don't need to. I watched what happened to the
Palestinians while it was happening, and I see the
de facto "prison camp" at Gaza, and the lebensraum
"settlements" that keep getting created by Israel. I
could use a different word than "prison camp" but
you'd get all hot and bothered, and even though the
term would be accurate, Gaza at least doesn't
compare to what went on under the Nazis.
Post by El Castor
By
the way, Dennis Ross also worked for Obama, so he wasn't some
Republican plant.
So what? I don't have people make up my mind
for me just depending on what affiliations they have.
I find it curious that you seem to have a strong
enough tendency that way that you seem to think
everybody else must tend that way too.
El Castor
2017-09-19 00:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:29:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:29:11 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
An imposition is not a "marvellous offer" for the
Palestinians any more than it was for the Cherokee.
Why was that? Did you read the offer, and did you watch the videos?
No, I don't need to. I watched what happened to the
Palestinians while it was happening, and I see the
de facto "prison camp" at Gaza, and the lebensraum
"settlements" that keep getting created by Israel. I
could use a different word than "prison camp" but
you'd get all hot and bothered, and even though the
term would be accurate, Gaza at least doesn't
compare to what went on under the Nazis.
Post by El Castor
By
the way, Dennis Ross also worked for Obama, so he wasn't some
Republican plant.
So what? I don't have people make up my mind
for me just depending on what affiliations they have.
I find it curious that you seem to have a strong
enough tendency that way that you seem to think
everybody else must tend that way too.
Make up your own mind, but at least have the courage to look at the
facts. Afraid to be "confused" by those facts? Read Bill Clinton's
rejected proposal, listen to a Muslim man explain his journey from
hatred of Israel, to an understanding ...

The offer ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html

Two interesting videos ...
http://youtu.be/xCQEmeGfFmY
http://youtu.be/r1lMKX-Le1I

And here is something from the notorious right wing web site -- the
Huffington Post ...
"At the end of World War II, 850,000 Jews lived in Arab countries.
Just 8,500 remain today. Their departure was no accident. After Arab
leaders failed to annihilate Israel militarily in 1948, they launched
a war of terror, incitement, and expulsion to decimate their own
ancient Jewish communities. In Iraq Jewish businessman Shafiq Adas,
then the country’s wealthiest citizen, was immediately arrested on
trumped-up charges and publicly lynched. This was followed by bombings
targeting Jewish institutions, arbitrary arrests of Jewish leaders,
and massive government seizures of property. Within years virtually
all of Iraq’s 2,500-year-old Jewish community had fled, emptying the
country of many of its greatest artists, musicians, and businessmen.
Similar scenes played out across the region, from Egypt to Syria to
Libya to Yemen. State-sanctioned pogroms descended on Jewish
neighborhoods, killing innocents and destroying ancient synagogues and
Jewish cemeteries. New, draconian laws prevented Jews from public
worship, forced them to carry Jewish identity cards, and seized
billions of dollars in their property and assets. The total area of
land confiscated from Jews in Arab countries amounts to nearly 40,000
square miles — about five times the size of Israel’s entire land
mass."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-prosor/the-middle-easts-greatest-untold-story_b_1652777.html
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-19 01:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:03:27 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 23:29:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:29:11 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:17:00 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
During the last days of his administration Bill Clinton, to his
credit, put together a very reasonable peace deal. Reasonable by any
standard, and the Palestinians flatly refused. So now what? Are we
back to Islam killing 6 million Jews? Probably -- and according to you
it's all the fault of the United States?
You, may not have heard, but Clinton isn't president anymore.
But when he was, he presided over a marvelous offer to settle the
Israel issue, and the Palestinians turned it down. As for the evil
Jews of Palestine, did you know that Palestinian residents of Israel
have the same rights as other Israeli citizens, and have elected
Muslim members of the Israeli government?
An imposition is not a "marvellous offer" for the
Palestinians any more than it was for the Cherokee.
Why was that? Did you read the offer, and did you watch the videos?
No, I don't need to. I watched what happened to the
Palestinians while it was happening, and I see the
de facto "prison camp" at Gaza, and the lebensraum
"settlements" that keep getting created by Israel. I
could use a different word than "prison camp" but
you'd get all hot and bothered, and even though the
term would be accurate, Gaza at least doesn't
compare to what went on under the Nazis.
Post by El Castor
By
the way, Dennis Ross also worked for Obama, so he wasn't some
Republican plant.
So what? I don't have people make up my mind
for me just depending on what affiliations they have.
I find it curious that you seem to have a strong
enough tendency that way that you seem to think
everybody else must tend that way too.
Make up your own mind, but at least have the courage to look at the
facts. Afraid to be "confused" by those facts? Read Bill Clinton's
rejected proposal, listen to a Muslim man explain his journey from
hatred of Israel, to an understanding ...
Can't be bothered looking at apologetics for
kicking most of the Palestinians out of the
country they've inhabited for 2000 years,
any more than I can be bothered looking at
apologetics for kicking the Cherokee out of
the Carolinas to make room for the white
man, and giving those who survived the
march Oklahoma in its place.
Post by El Castor
The offer ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21/dennis-ross-on-fox-news-sunday.html
Two interesting videos ...
http://youtu.be/xCQEmeGfFmY
http://youtu.be/r1lMKX-Le1I
And here is something from the notorious right wing web site -- the
Huffington Post ...
"At the end of World War II, 850,000 Jews lived in Arab countries.
Just 8,500 remain today. Their departure was no accident. After Arab
leaders failed to annihilate Israel militarily in 1948, they launched
a war of terror, incitement, and expulsion to decimate their own
ancient Jewish communities. In Iraq Jewish businessman Shafiq Adas,
then the country’s wealthiest citizen, was immediately arrested on
trumped-up charges and publicly lynched. This was followed by bombings
targeting Jewish institutions, arbitrary arrests of Jewish leaders,
and massive government seizures of property. Within years virtually
all of Iraq’s 2,500-year-old Jewish community had fled, emptying the
country of many of its greatest artists, musicians, and businessmen.
Similar scenes played out across the region, from Egypt to Syria to
Libya to Yemen. State-sanctioned pogroms descended on Jewish
neighborhoods, killing innocents and destroying ancient synagogues and
Jewish cemeteries. New, draconian laws prevented Jews from public
worship, forced them to carry Jewish identity cards, and seized
billions of dollars in their property and assets. The total area of
land confiscated from Jews in Arab countries amounts to nearly 40,000
square miles — about five times the size of Israel’s entire land
mass."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-prosor/the-middle-easts-greatest-untold-story_b_1652777.html
JackPineSavage
2017-09-17 15:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
\On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 12:07:30 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.
Here they are again, if you don't want
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Got to go, but don't assume I have read all your posts. Just for
starters -- what war crimes did we commit in Palestine and Saudi
Arabia?
I didn't say we committed war crimes in Saudi
Arabia. That's just your routine confabulation.
As to Palestine: Gaza and lebensraum, with
nothing but perfunctory objection from the USA.
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
It is:

Le·bens·raum
ˈlābənsˌroum,-bənz-/
noun
the territory that a state or nation believes is needed for its natural
development, especially associated with Nazi Germany.
Post by El Castor
<snip>
El Castor
2017-09-17 20:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JackPineSavage
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
\On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 12:07:30 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 00:28:35 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:47:58 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 21:11:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Can I give you a lift to the airport? Glad to be of help. (-8
I'm more of a "real American" than you are, IMO.
You might be happier in the deep Southeast.
Might be,
"Definitely, IMO. I care about the integrity of the USA,
and you don't.
Not accurate -- we both care about the welfare and integrity of the
United States. It's just that one of us is sometimes wrong in our
proposed remedies. We each have our own opinion about who that "one of
us" might be.
If you support all those "stupid" (IMO) wars and
"military actions" that I mentioned, then IMO you
do not care about the integrity of the USA,
because those diminish the USA.
As I have said many times, we should have punished Afghanistan and the
Taliban for their part in 9/11 (Muslims understand retribution), and
then left with a warning that we would make them very sorry if they
didn't behave. As for Iraq, Syria, and Libya -- all terrible mistakes.
Of all the wars since WWII, Korea seems to have been justified, as was
Desert Storm. I served in Vietnam, but after I got out and availed
myself of both sides of the story, realized what a tragic mess that
was and resigned my reserve commission.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
If you only care
about the power of the USA, then some of them
can be justified just on the basis of showing
who's the biggest baddest bully around. Britain
did that in the 19th century, and Rome did it
in the ancient world.
You have no right to proclaim what I do or don't believe. If you have
a specific question, ask and it will be answered.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I think I listed about 20 heinous actions of
the USA. That's not just "sometimes" wrong.
That's "a lot" wrong.
No idea what you are talking about.
I was very plain. I listed examples of the
invasions/military-actions/ support of
reprehensible regimes that I was talking
about in two lines, though I could have
added others.
Here they are again, if you don't want
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
Got to go, but don't assume I have read all your posts. Just for
starters -- what war crimes did we commit in Palestine and Saudi
Arabia?
I didn't say we committed war crimes in Saudi
Arabia. That's just your routine confabulation.
As to Palestine: Gaza and lebensraum, with
nothing but perfunctory objection from the USA.
Ah, now I see! Perfunctory objection. Sounds very serious! What, pray
tell, is there about Gaza that has you all excited? That word
lebensraum sounds, how shall I put this? Anti Semitic?
Le·bens·raum
?l?b?ns?roum,-b?nz-/
noun
the territory that a state or nation believes is needed for its natural
development, especially associated with Nazi Germany.
I know what it means, and why Rumple used it. (-8
Dan C
2017-09-15 03:19:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:17:02 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:35:52 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:59:48 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of
the Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required
to register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-
russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-
agent-under-fara-2017-9
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-
foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Just as the American news establishment exists for the
purpose of disseminating American propaganda.
Not quite as bad. CBS and FOX may have their proclivities, but they
aren't owned and operated by the government with the intent of
damaging the United States.
If you're saying that Russian Propaganda has sometimes or
often been intended to damage the USA, that's true but it's far more
glaringly obvious that the single biggest thrust of American propaganda
always, since WWII, been intended to damage first the USSR and then
Russia.
Propaganda, regardless of the source, is ALWAYS intended to cause
damage.
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
That's so very glaringly obvious that it can't sensibly be denied. It
can of course nonsensically be denied - it's possible to assert and
defend anything if the arguments don't have to make sense or bear any
relationship to plainly observable fact.
Vietnam, Cuba, Palestine, El Salvador, Chile, Venezuela,
do you need any more evidence that the common people of the USA have
been played for fools, over and over and over, by the US news media in
collaboration with mysterious and not-so-mysterious forces deep within
the US government,
and also, due to the nature of power in the US, by powerful consortia
that exert their influence on the US government toward their own
benefit and the hell with the people of the US? We need an antidote.
RT has its own agenda but it's also an antidote.
It's not in the best interest of the people of the US to
continue to be snookered by powerful local interests that care only
for their own bottom-line and nothing for the welfare of the people or
even of the nation in general.
I am a loyal American. I may not always agree with everything some
elements in my country do, but there is no question that I am a loyal
American and wish my country well. This attitude is called patriotism,
and is the reason for my endemic distrust and dislike of RT. That is not
going to change.
Keep sucking, with a smile.
You mean like you fuckin polesmokers do?

Fuck off and die.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he scrambled his partition table.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: Loading Image...
Jack Fate
2017-09-16 20:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan C
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Keep sucking, with a smile.
You mean like you fuckin polesmokers do?
Fuck off and die.
And this dip shit denies being a bigot. Lying fuck.
Tzatz Ziki
2017-09-18 01:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jack Fate
And thi
"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."
j***@hotmail.com
2017-09-16 19:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
Thom Hartman is dropping is show too.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-16 20:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Oh gee, the American political establishment regards RT
as an official propaganda arm of the Russian government.
I'm so impressed.
They regard it that way because that is what it is -- it exists for
the purpose of disseminating Russian propaganda.
And you exist for the purpose of disseminating US propaganda.
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Thom Hartman is dropping is show too.
As long as channel 32 can still broadcast RT, I can
still catch it.
GLOBALIST
2017-09-13 12:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Then what about BBC? And the zillion of other news sites
from France, etc
Jack Fate
2017-09-13 12:49:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GLOBALIST
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Then what about BBC? And the zillion of other news sites
from France, etc
Once again the idiot trots out a straw man like he always does.
Tzatz Ziki
2017-09-13 20:42:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jack Fate
Once again
"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."
El Castor
2017-09-13 18:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:40:17 -0700 (PDT), GLOBALIST
Post by GLOBALIST
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
Then what about BBC? And the zillion of other news sites
from France, etc
"Russia’s RT Network: Is It More BBC or K.G.B.?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/world/europe/russias-rt-network-is-it-more-bbc-or-kgb.html?mcubz=1
mg
2017-09-14 04:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.

After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.

The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.

So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
El Castor
2017-09-14 06:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-14 12:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:25:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
The name of RT is disguised on my antenna TV too. It
comes on at 5:00 AM but the program listing for it on
Zap2it is given as "Journal News Close up" or something
like that, though I haven't figured out when RT is going
to be shown or some ballet performance or something
like that. I channel-flip a lot because there's so little
worth watching on TV, which is why I run into it more
often than some people do. I'm pretty sure RT is not
the agency doing the disguising, because RT is clearly
eager to have Americans listen to it. I know I see it
Monday at 5:00 AM, and since it's 5:00 AM Thursday
now, I'm going to check to see if it's on.

Yes it is, with the channel listing name on Zap2It
given as "Journal News Close Up".
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-14 12:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 05:03:42 -0700, rumpelstiltskin<***@y.com> wrote:
<snip>
Post by rumpelstiltskin
The name of RT is disguised on my antenna TV too. It
comes on at 5:00 AM but the program listing for it on
Zap2it is given as "Journal News Close up" or something
like that, though I haven't figured out when RT is going
to be shown or some ballet performance or something
like that. I channel-flip a lot because there's so little
worth watching on TV, which is why I run into it more
often than some people do. I'm pretty sure RT is not
the agency doing the disguising, because RT is clearly
eager to have Americans listen to it. I know I see it
Monday at 5:00 AM, and since it's 5:00 AM Thursday
now, I'm going to check to see if it's on.
Yes it is, with the channel listing name on Zap2It
given as "Journal News Close Up".
The first bit was some children too young to know
who they are, whose mothers and fathers apparently
went to paradise fighting for ISIS, and the spot was
trying to locate their grandparents. Then they went
on to the separatist election of Catalonia, and now
it's Bernie Sanders and the American anti-Hillary
and the still entirely-unevidenced claim that Russia
messed illegally with the American elections.
mg
2017-09-14 16:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:25:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
I didn't mean to over or underestimate the spoils of war
from Libya. As I recall, that's simply what the article that
I read said. It said that Obama promised not to topple
Gaddafi in exchange for Putin's cooperation with the UN
security council and Obama didn't keep his word and then to
add insult to injury Obama didn't share the spoils.

Bush got along reasonably well with Putin and that was after
the Afghanistan thing and the collapse of the Soviet Union,
etc. So, I don't think that the big problems between Russia
and the US started until after the destruction of Libya. For
example, Gaddafi was killed (with a sword in his rectum?) in
2011. The Russian Olympics didn't take place until 2014.

In any case, the biggest source of friction is obviously the
Syrian war in which the Russians have the legal (and moral)
high ground and having the Russians continually remind the
American people of that with their TV station is sort of
like having an enemy around who witnessed a crime and who
also happens to own a TV station.
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
El Castor
2017-09-14 18:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:25:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
I didn't mean to over or underestimate the spoils of war
from Libya. As I recall, that's simply what the article that
I read said. It said that Obama promised not to topple
Gaddafi in exchange for Putin's cooperation with the UN
security council and Obama didn't keep his word and then to
add insult to injury Obama didn't share the spoils.
Bush got along reasonably well with Putin and that was after
the Afghanistan thing and the collapse of the Soviet Union,
etc. So, I don't think that the big problems between Russia
and the US started until after the destruction of Libya. For
example, Gaddafi was killed (with a sword in his rectum?) in
2011. The Russian Olympics didn't take place until 2014.
In any case, the biggest source of friction is obviously the
Syrian war in which the Russians have the legal (and moral)
high ground and having the Russians continually remind the
American people of that with their TV station is sort of
like having an enemy around who witnessed a crime and who
also happens to own a TV station.
Neither Russia, nor the United States occupies any high ground in
Syria. Assad is a brutal dictator who, over the years, has used poison
gas on his own people. Russia's support of him is no better, and
arguably much worse, than our support of the Sunni majority's attempt
to throw him out.

There is an element in the United States that hates this country, and
would like to see its government overthrown. RT deliberately feeds
those attitudes, and appeals to weak minded individuals looking for a
reason to hate their own country. So, no thanks.

Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
mg
2017-09-21 12:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:59:18 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:25:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
I didn't mean to over or underestimate the spoils of war
from Libya. As I recall, that's simply what the article that
I read said. It said that Obama promised not to topple
Gaddafi in exchange for Putin's cooperation with the UN
security council and Obama didn't keep his word and then to
add insult to injury Obama didn't share the spoils.
Bush got along reasonably well with Putin and that was after
the Afghanistan thing and the collapse of the Soviet Union,
etc. So, I don't think that the big problems between Russia
and the US started until after the destruction of Libya. For
example, Gaddafi was killed (with a sword in his rectum?) in
2011. The Russian Olympics didn't take place until 2014.
In any case, the biggest source of friction is obviously the
Syrian war in which the Russians have the legal (and moral)
high ground and having the Russians continually remind the
American people of that with their TV station is sort of
like having an enemy around who witnessed a crime and who
also happens to own a TV station.
Neither Russia, nor the United States occupies any high ground in
Syria.
The United States is in Syria illegally and is doing the
same sort of things that we hung Nazi war criminals for at
Nuremberg. In additition, the U.S. is funding terrorists in
Syria and has imposed exceptionally harsh sanctions in Syria
that has worsened the humanitarian situation.
Post by El Castor
Assad is a brutal dictator who, over the years, has used poison
gas on his own people. Russia's support of him is no better, and
arguably much worse, than our support of the Sunni majority's attempt
to throw him out.
That good-guy/bad-guy stuff is nonsense and, personally, I
find it laughable. However, as I said before Russia has the
right, under international law to be in Syria and we don't.
Post by El Castor
There is an element in the United States that hates this country, and
would like to see its government overthrown. RT deliberately feeds
those attitudes, and appeals to weak minded individuals looking for a
reason to hate their own country. So, no thanks.
As the old saying goes, patriotism is the last refuge of a
scoundrel.
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-21 13:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:59:18 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by mg
The United States is in Syria illegally and is doing the
same sort of things that we hung Nazi war criminals for at
Nuremberg. In additition, the U.S. is funding terrorists in
Syria and has imposed exceptionally harsh sanctions in Syria
that has worsened the humanitarian situation.
Post by El Castor
Assad is a brutal dictator who, over the years, has used poison
gas on his own people. Russia's support of him is no better, and
arguably much worse, than our support of the Sunni majority's attempt
to throw him out.
That good-guy/bad-guy stuff is nonsense and, personally, I
find it laughable. However, as I said before Russia has the
right, under international law to be in Syria and we don't.
Post by El Castor
There is an element in the United States that hates this country, and
would like to see its government overthrown. RT deliberately feeds
those attitudes, and appeals to weak minded individuals looking for a
reason to hate their own country. So, no thanks.
As the old saying goes, patriotism is the last refuge of a
scoundrel.
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.

At least I hope that faction is diminishing. Personally
I've found deep-state USA pronouncements highly dubious
since I was a little kid during the McCarthy era. As Scotty
on Star-Trek said (though he wasn't the first), "Fool me
once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-21 15:20:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-21 16:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-21 16:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-21 18:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Josh
2017-09-21 19:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-21 20:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-21 22:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-21 22:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-21 22:59:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-22 00:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-22 14:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
That strikes me as as an unwillingness on your part to honestly debate
the issue.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-22 18:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:35:00 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying. It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
That strikes me as as an unwillingness on your part to honestly debate
the issue.
It's because you have, earlier and again now, IMO ended up
being nothing but a royal pain in the ass, making IMV frankly
stupid arguments which are directly consequent to having
accepted an economic system which is by no means a "final truth".

You did that the first time I gave up on you, after you had
argued (reconstructing and simplifying here) that because a
fisherman catches fish which he sells to a merchant which the
merchant sells to an entrepreneur etc., then therefore that
succession of paper clips connecting to each other in a chain
starting from the paper clip attached to the ground and ending
with the paper clip attached to the ceiling (occupied by the
masters of industry of our glorious capitalism) "proves" that
the chain of paper clips from the floor to the capitalist ceiling
is the reason the ceiling is there, and is the only way that
ceiling can be held up. It does no such thing of course.

The Spartans felt that the most glorious life was to die
in Battle and their success proved it. The 19th-century Brits
felt that the most glorious life was to subjugate other peoples
and build an empire, and their success proved it. They were
both very sure that their ideas were correct in an absolute
way, and were both completely wrong, though it "worked"
for them, to their way of looking at things, for a while. You
couldn't argue against them because the only way they
would argue was from within their own system.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 01:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:35:00 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying. It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
That strikes me as as an unwillingness on your part to honestly debate
the issue.
It's because you have, earlier and again now, IMO ended up
being nothing but a royal pain in the ass, making IMV frankly
stupid arguments which are directly consequent to having
accepted an economic system which is by no means a "final truth".
I make my self a pain in the ass when I legitimately challenge arguments
(that's a good thing).

Where did you pull that "economic system" comment from? It seems
irrelevant.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
You did that the first time I gave up on you, after you had
argued (reconstructing and simplifying here) that because a
fisherman catches fish which he sells to a merchant which the
merchant sells to an entrepreneur etc., then therefore that
succession of paper clips connecting to each other in a chain
starting from the paper clip attached to the ground and ending
with the paper clip attached to the ceiling (occupied by the
masters of industry of our glorious capitalism) "proves" that
the chain of paper clips from the floor to the capitalist ceiling
is the reason the ceiling is there, and is the only way that
ceiling can be held up. It does no such thing of course.
Sorry, I made no such argument.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-23 03:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:22:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:35:00 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying. It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
That strikes me as as an unwillingness on your part to honestly debate
the issue.
It's because you have, earlier and again now, IMO ended up
being nothing but a royal pain in the ass, making IMV frankly
stupid arguments which are directly consequent to having
accepted an economic system which is by no means a "final truth".
I make my self a pain in the ass when I legitimately challenge arguments
(that's a good thing).
Where did you pull that "economic system" comment from? It seems
irrelevant.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
You did that the first time I gave up on you, after you had
argued (reconstructing and simplifying here) that because a
fisherman catches fish which he sells to a merchant which the
merchant sells to an entrepreneur etc., then therefore that
succession of paper clips connecting to each other in a chain
starting from the paper clip attached to the ground and ending
with the paper clip attached to the ceiling (occupied by the
masters of industry of our glorious capitalism) "proves" that
the chain of paper clips from the floor to the capitalist ceiling
is the reason the ceiling is there, and is the only way that
ceiling can be held up. It does no such thing of course.
Sorry, I made no such argument.
It's an analogy, not the exact argument. You never
understand anything, do you? -- or at least you pretend
not to. You never said "paper clips". My analogy was
meant to illustrate my feeling that the connections you
presented as critical were merely opportunistic. That's
something else you can't understand, or pretend not to.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 03:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:22:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:35:00 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:59:46 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:21:49 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Josh
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying. It's regarded as "patriotism".
Who is this puppet master of the New York Times, New York Post,
Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, Fox and Breitbart?
A prevailing Weltanschauung, obviously.
It's curious you think, or wish to imply, that
it has to be start with "a man".
You said there is an unspoken conspiracy between the media and the "deep
state." So, if the puppet master isn't a person, then exactly what are
you saying the Weltanschauung is?
A philosophy or believe system held enough in common
by a group that it's recognizable. If you don't like
"Weltanschuung" for that, pick another word as long as
it's not chosen just to be deceptive and annoying.
I know what Weltanschauung means. I'm asking you to share with us the
philosophy that is the puppet master.
Play your ritual annoyance game with somebody else.
That strikes me as as an unwillingness on your part to honestly debate
the issue.
It's because you have, earlier and again now, IMO ended up
being nothing but a royal pain in the ass, making IMV frankly
stupid arguments which are directly consequent to having
accepted an economic system which is by no means a "final truth".
I make my self a pain in the ass when I legitimately challenge arguments
(that's a good thing).
Where did you pull that "economic system" comment from? It seems
irrelevant.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
You did that the first time I gave up on you, after you had
argued (reconstructing and simplifying here) that because a
fisherman catches fish which he sells to a merchant which the
merchant sells to an entrepreneur etc., then therefore that
succession of paper clips connecting to each other in a chain
starting from the paper clip attached to the ground and ending
with the paper clip attached to the ceiling (occupied by the
masters of industry of our glorious capitalism) "proves" that
the chain of paper clips from the floor to the capitalist ceiling
is the reason the ceiling is there, and is the only way that
ceiling can be held up. It does no such thing of course.
Sorry, I made no such argument.
It's an analogy, not the exact argument. You never
understand anything, do you? -- or at least you pretend
not to. You never said "paper clips". My analogy was
meant to illustrate my feeling that the connections you
presented as critical were merely opportunistic.
What connections did I present? It sure seems you are writing about
some conversation with some other person.
El Castor
2017-09-22 05:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-22 09:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-22 14:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).

(*) The Weltanschauung is that the reporting is a reflection of the
opinions and beliefs of the management. There isn't an unspoken
conspiracy with the "deep state."
El Castor
2017-09-22 21:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
(*) The Weltanschauung is that the reporting is a reflection of the
opinions and beliefs of the management. There isn't an unspoken
conspiracy with the "deep state."
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 01:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-23 03:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Are you still here?
El Castor
2017-09-23 05:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf

IQ:
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8

Islam:
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv

A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.

Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust

Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and

"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind

"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover

I rest my case. (-8
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 05:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
El Castor
2017-09-23 07:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:20:22 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
Try as I might I have been unable to find data demonstrating that
Sub-Saharan Black intelligence is equal to or greater than that of
Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians. Show me something and I will be glad
to consider it. The same is true for virtually universal agreement
among economists (I have a degree in economics) that corporate
taxation has a negative influence on economic growth, and the almost
universal Islamic antagonism directed against Jews -- which, by the
way, pre-dates Israel by more than a thousand years.

I'm always willing to look at facts and change my mind. At one time I
considered myself to be a Fabian socialist, was very anti-Israel, and
pro Vietnam and Iraq wars -- until facts made me change my mind.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-23 13:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 00:53:43 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:20:22 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
Try as I might I have been unable to find data demonstrating that
Sub-Saharan Black intelligence is equal to or greater than that of
Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians. Show me something and I will be glad
to consider it. The same is true for virtually universal agreement
among economists (I have a degree in economics) that corporate
taxation has a negative influence on economic growth, and the almost
universal Islamic antagonism directed against Jews -- which, by the
way, pre-dates Israel by more than a thousand years.
I'm always willing to look at facts and change my mind. At one time I
considered myself to be a Fabian socialist, was very anti-Israel, and
pro Vietnam and Iraq wars -- until facts made me change my mind.
The term "economic growth" sounds pretty good at first,
but when one realizes that there's only a limited extent to
which that means "economic growth for everybody", it loses
quite a lot of its initial panache. America is a very fine place
to live indeed: still arguably the best in the world, generally
speaking. but it would be even nicer if "best" didn't have to
be qualified by "generally speaking". That's the bit that
weighs on my mind more than it seems to weigh on the
minds of some others in relatively comfortable
circumstances. I'm not really doing anything about it other
than fretting, granted. I just throw a few pennies out the
carriage window as I speed past, as others do, just to
assuage our consciences a bit. When the mob carries
me off to the guillotine, I'll be very unhappy about that,
but I won't have any argument against it that I could
expect to move their hearts very strongly. Thomas Paine
in France after the American Revolution pleaded with
the French peasantry during the French Revolution to
"kill the king, but not the man", but he didn't have any
impact on the general anger and in fact came close to
getting guillotined himself. Then he came back to
America and had trouble getting carriages, because
by then he had written "The Age of Reason" and
New York carriage drivers were afraid their carriages
might get struck by lightning from a wrathful Jehovah
if Paine was riding inside.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 15:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:20:22 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
Try as I might I have been unable to find data demonstrating that
Sub-Saharan Black intelligence is equal to or greater than that of
Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians. Show me something and I will be glad
to consider it. The same is true for virtually universal agreement
among economists (I have a degree in economics) that corporate
taxation has a negative influence on economic growth, and the almost
universal Islamic antagonism directed against Jews -- which, by the
way, pre-dates Israel by more than a thousand years.
We've been over each of these before, so I'm not going into detail on
them again as to your confirmation bias. I will summarize by saying
that 1) there is no disagreement on who has higher and lower IQs, but
rather on why, 2) there is no disagreement that tax cuts in and of
themselves increase GDP, but rather whether that GDP growth is offset by
the impact of the concomitant increase in public debt, and 3) there is
no disagreement on the antagonism directed against Jews by Muslims in
countries that are mostly Muslim, but rather whether that antagonism is
inherent in Islam given what we see among Muslims in the West.
El Castor
2017-09-23 19:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:43:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:20:22 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
Try as I might I have been unable to find data demonstrating that
Sub-Saharan Black intelligence is equal to or greater than that of
Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians. Show me something and I will be glad
to consider it. The same is true for virtually universal agreement
among economists (I have a degree in economics) that corporate
taxation has a negative influence on economic growth, and the almost
universal Islamic antagonism directed against Jews -- which, by the
way, pre-dates Israel by more than a thousand years.
We've been over each of these before, so I'm not going into detail on
them again as to your confirmation bias. I will summarize by saying
that 1) there is no disagreement on who has higher and lower IQs, but
rather on why,
Oh? Let me clear that up -- genetics and environment, roughly 50/50.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
2) there is no disagreement that tax cuts in and of
themselves increase GDP, but rather whether that GDP growth is offset by
the impact of the concomitant increase in public debt, and
My comments were solely about corporate taxation -- which has been
shown to have a negative impact on economic growth. Cuts in corporate
taxes should be offset by cuts in government spending and increased
taxation of the dreaded (by you) rich. Taxation of the rich has been
shown to have little impact on growth.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
3) there is
no disagreement on the antagonism directed against Jews by Muslims in
countries that are mostly Muslim, but rather whether that antagonism is
inherent in Islam given what we see among Muslims in the West.
The words of the Quran and Sharia do not change in the West. Islam has
grown from a tiny group in Saudi Arabia to roughly 25% of the world's
population, and it continues to grow. It does not change because
Mohammad was a very clever man, and designed his way of life (it is
very important to understand that it is a way of life -- not just a
religion) to be specifically impossible to change. Experience has
shown that Islam is quiescent as it begins to infect a country, but as
it grows, it becomes increasingly difficult to deal with. Importing
Islam in the form of Syrian "refugees" has doomed Europe, and will do
the same to the United States, if we allow it to happen.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-09-23 22:35:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:43:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:20:22 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:23:04 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 07:44:25 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 22:32:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
I know I can't believe anything most of them say when it
comes to matters toward which the USA in general has a
very firm position. I believe Democracy Now. I don't know
much about most of the others but I expect the rank and
file mostly report what they're told, or expected, to report.
It's not regarded as "lying". It's regarded as "patriotism".
You seek out information that confirms the existence of a world that
conforms to your pre-conceived notions of the way the world works. It
is sadly a psychological defect known as confirmation bias, and is
often seen in scientific research. I doubt there is a cure.
Physician, heal thyself.
While I agree with the Jeff on this particular issue (*), he has been
guilty of confirmation bias on many issues (global warming, taxes, IQs,
Islam).
Global warming is a debate with seemingly legitimate science on both
sides, but corporate taxation, IQ, and Islam -- facts beyond debate.
This physician is incapable of healing himself.
Corporate taxation: OECD
"Evidence in this study suggests that lowering statutory corporate tax
rates can lead to particularly large productivity gains in firms that
are dynamic and profitable, i.e.those that can make the largest
contribution to GDP growth. It also appears that corporate taxes
adversely influence productivity in all firms except in young and
small firms since these firms are often not very profitable."
https://www.oecd.org/mena/competitiveness/41997578.pdf
As we all know, the median IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, and East Asians, as
measured by generally accepted standardized tests, exceed the median
IQs of Caucasians and Sub-Saharan Africans. Doubt it? I would be glad
to offer proof. (-8
588 (Yes 588) videos from various Muslim sources that share one theme
-- kill the Jews ...
https://www.memri.org/search-results?keywords=kill%20the%20jews&content_type%5Bclip%5D=clip&current_site=tv
A few more particularly offensive -- Thanks to MEMRI's efforts the
supply is endless. Muslims have hated Jews since a Jewish tribe dared
to defy Mohammad.
Al Aqsa Mosque -- "The Jews' Use of Children's Blood for Passover
Matzos Led to the Holocaust"
https://www.memri.org/tv/lecture-al-aqsa-mosque-jews-use-childrens-blood-passover-matzos-led-holocaust
Video designed for Children -- "Qatari Educational Software Teaches
Hatred of Jews: They Killed Many Prophets, We will Fight and Vanquish
Them"
https://www.memri.org/tv/qatari-educational-software-teaches-hatred-jews-they-killed-many-prophets-we-will-fight-and
"Preacher on Hamas TV: The Jews Are the Enemies of Mankind"
https://www.memri.org/tv/preacher-hamas-tv-jews-are-enemies-mankind
"Senior Hamas Official Al-Bardawil: Jews Kill Palestinian Children in
Order to Knead Their Blood into Passover Bread"
https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-al-bardawil-jews-kill-palestinian-children-order-knead-their-blood-passover
I rest my case. (-8
... with only the data that confirms your bias.
Try as I might I have been unable to find data demonstrating that
Sub-Saharan Black intelligence is equal to or greater than that of
Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians. Show me something and I will be glad
to consider it. The same is true for virtually universal agreement
among economists (I have a degree in economics) that corporate
taxation has a negative influence on economic growth, and the almost
universal Islamic antagonism directed against Jews -- which, by the
way, pre-dates Israel by more than a thousand years.
We've been over each of these before, so I'm not going into detail on
them again as to your confirmation bias. I will summarize by saying
that 1) there is no disagreement on who has higher and lower IQs, but
rather on why,
Oh? Let me clear that up -- genetics and environment, roughly 50/50.
Across the entire population, agreed. Within a slice of the population,
who knows? Data you assume to be true.
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
2) there is no disagreement that tax cuts in and of
themselves increase GDP, but rather whether that GDP growth is offset by
the impact of the concomitant increase in public debt, and
My comments were solely about corporate taxation -- which has been
shown to have a negative impact on economic growth. Cuts in corporate
taxes should be offset by cuts in government spending and increased
taxation of the dreaded (by you) rich. Taxation of the rich has been
shown to have little impact on growth.
I thought you believed that about all tax cuts. My bad. I haven't
studied corporate versus individual taxes enough to weigh in.
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
3) there is
no disagreement on the antagonism directed against Jews by Muslims in
countries that are mostly Muslim, but rather whether that antagonism is
inherent in Islam given what we see among Muslims in the West.
The words of the Quran and Sharia do not change in the West.
Empirically, their interpretation does. Data you ignore.
Post by El Castor
Islam has
grown from a tiny group in Saudi Arabia to roughly 25% of the world's
population, and it continues to grow. It does not change because
Mohammad was a very clever man, and designed his way of life (it is
very important to understand that it is a way of life -- not just a
religion) to be specifically impossible to change. Experience has
shown that Islam is quiescent as it begins to infect a country, but as
it grows, it becomes increasingly difficult to deal with. Importing
Islam in the form of Syrian "refugees" has doomed Europe, and will do
the same to the United States, if we allow it to happen.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-09-24 19:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 00:53:43 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by El Castor
I'm always willing to look at facts and change my mind. At one time I
considered myself to be a Fabian socialist, was very anti-Israel, and
pro Vietnam and Iraq wars -- until facts made me change my mind.
You mean at various times, right, not all at the same time?
http://tinyurl.com/y7qelqxh

El Castor
2017-09-22 05:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 09:43:29 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:20:40 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
El Castor apparently is a holdout in an increasingly
diminishing faction that feels that official pronouncements
from the "deep state" in the USA have any credibility at all.
I'm a holdout as well when it comes the American press being part of a
"deep state" conspiracy.
It may well be an "unspoken" conspiracy, by tacit consent.
but it certainly seems to me that one can't believe anything
the mainstream press says. I'll make an exception for
Shields and Brooks, but not for much else. I'd make an
exception for McLaughlin Group too, but of course
McLaughlin is dead now.
And the New York Times and New York Post, Washington Post and Washington
Times, MSNBC and Fox, and Demoracy Now! and Breitbart are all part of a
tacit conspiracy with a shadow government? Doesn't that strike you (to
put it nicely) odd?
Those corporations are influenced by the opinions and beliefs of those
who manage them, and select the staff that produces the products of
the organization. Oh, and we did land on the Moon, jet contrails are
not chemicals designed to pacify the masses, and the 9/11 buildings
were not brought down by explosives planted by George Bush bent on
inciting a war on Islam at the behest of the military industrial
complex.
El Castor
2017-09-21 19:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:59:18 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 23:25:28 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 00:00:32 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Well there you have it -- RT is now an official propaganda arm of the
Russian government. Maybe the listeners will also be required to
register? Hmmmm.
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
http://www.businessinsider.com/doj-asks-rt-to-register-as-foreign-agent-under-fara-2017-9
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Today-RT-Justice-Dept-foreign-agent/2017/09/13/id/813229/
I read somewhere, a long time ago, that the trouble with
Russia started when Obama promised Putin that, as a member
of the UN security council, if he would sign off on
intervention in Libya, there would be no regime change, but
there was, of course. Then, to add insult to injury, they
didn't share the spoils with Putin. So, that's where the
trouble evidently began with Russia.
Never heard that about Libya, and I think you may be overestimating
the "spoils" gained from Libyan oil. But there have been a lot of
bumps in our relationship with Russia. Boycott of the Russian
Olympics, US support of the Afghan rebels, US attempts to install ABMs
in Eastern Europe, belief that the US had a hand in the collapse of
the Soviet Union, NATO and friction over Eastern Europe and former
soviet states, and more recently US resistance to Putin's obvious
desire to re-create the old Soviet empire. Russia and the US are at
odds over the Middle East. We support the Saudis, Israelis, and the
rest of the Sunni Middle East. Russia backs Iran, and Iran's ally,
Assad, and eventually I suspect Iraq will fall into the Iran/Russia
orbit. North Korea and Russia have always been cozy -- a fact that RT
probably doesn't publicize.
I didn't mean to over or underestimate the spoils of war
from Libya. As I recall, that's simply what the article that
I read said. It said that Obama promised not to topple
Gaddafi in exchange for Putin's cooperation with the UN
security council and Obama didn't keep his word and then to
add insult to injury Obama didn't share the spoils.
Bush got along reasonably well with Putin and that was after
the Afghanistan thing and the collapse of the Soviet Union,
etc. So, I don't think that the big problems between Russia
and the US started until after the destruction of Libya. For
example, Gaddafi was killed (with a sword in his rectum?) in
2011. The Russian Olympics didn't take place until 2014.
In any case, the biggest source of friction is obviously the
Syrian war in which the Russians have the legal (and moral)
high ground and having the Russians continually remind the
American people of that with their TV station is sort of
like having an enemy around who witnessed a crime and who
also happens to own a TV station.
Neither Russia, nor the United States occupies any high ground in
Syria.
The United States is in Syria illegally and is doing the
same sort of things that we hung Nazi war criminals for at
Nuremberg. In additition, the U.S. is funding terrorists in
Syria and has imposed exceptionally harsh sanctions in Syria
that has worsened the humanitarian situation.
Post by El Castor
Assad is a brutal dictator who, over the years, has used poison
gas on his own people. Russia's support of him is no better, and
arguably much worse, than our support of the Sunni majority's attempt
to throw him out.
That good-guy/bad-guy stuff is nonsense and, personally, I
find it laughable. However, as I said before Russia has the
right, under international law to be in Syria and we don't.
Russia is there to support an oppressive regime that kills members of
the Sunni majority who oppose it. Russia's presence is for one reason
-- the murderous Assad regime is an ally of Iran, which happens to be
an ally of Russia. I doubt that RT bothered to mention that.
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
There is an element in the United States that hates this country, and
would like to see its government overthrown. RT deliberately feeds
those attitudes, and appeals to weak minded individuals looking for a
reason to hate their own country. So, no thanks.
As the old saying goes, patriotism is the last refuge of a
scoundrel.
Post by El Castor
Once again ...
Propaganda "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the
purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person "
... Merriam Webster
The United States has become the propaganda capital of the
world as a result of media consolidation brought on by
Reagan and Clinton.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/1/18/439135/-
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by El Castor
Post by rumpelstiltskin
After that there was what appears to be a US sponsored
(fascist) coup in Ukraine and then a proxy war with Russia
in Syria and then Donald Trump came along and cut off the
funding to the terrorists in Syria.
The US has been involved in Syria since at least 2011. So
that's six years of the best laid plans of establishment
mice and men flushed down the toilet with the election of
Donald Trump and there are obviously some very powerful
people who are absolutely livid. My bet is that they would
like to kill Trump almost as much as they would like to kill
Assad and Putin.
So, anyway, I think the real issue with Russia is the war in
Syria and the fact that the Establishment would rather that
the public not be reminded that there was a terrible war
going on in Syria, and would rather that they didn't hear
the bloody details of that war every day on Russian
television.
You are the only one watching the "bloody details" on Russian
television. No one else even knows that it exists. Last I checked,
Comcast carried it on a non HD channel -- these days everyone is HD.
And, Comcast's channel lineup lists the name of the RT channel as
"Lease", not RT.
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