Discussion:
In Major Victory For Trump, Senate Passes "Sweeping" Tax Bill Which Nobody Read
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me
2017-12-02 16:07:29 UTC
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Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
El Castor
2017-12-02 21:05:39 UTC
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Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.

At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-12-02 23:08:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
El Castor
2017-12-03 09:33:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know, and at this point don't much care.
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-12-03 14:43:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
El Castor
2017-12-03 21:00:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?

Our tax system drives corporations to participate in these intricate
maneuvers to avoid paying taxes -- which they have a duty to their
shareholders to do. The end result -- taxes paid to foreign
governments and trillions stashed overseas, never to return, because
if it does return it will be taxed at our exorbitant rates. Business
is Global. Apple sells more iPhones overseas than it does in the US.
How can we expect a California corporation like Apple to pay more than
40% to the state and feds, and still compete with a Samsung that pays
the South Korean rate of 22%?

This discussion is not about taxes or economics. It's about the Left's
hatred and desire to punish "evil rich corporations". Well, sorry, I
would like to see the United States succeed. We will all benefit.
****************************************

"Today’s broken tax code:
• Drives American jobs, research,
and headquarters overseas to
countries with more competitive tax
codes.
• Hurts American manufacturing
by favoring foreign workers and
businesses over American workers
and businesses.
• Imposes the highest corporate tax
rate in the industrialized world—
effectively 39 percent when the 35
percent federal rate is combined
with the average state corporate tax
rate.
• Discourages global U.S.
businesses from bringing home
their foreign earnings to create jobs
and increase paychecks for American
workers.
• Devalues work done in the United States
by taxing “Made in America” products and
services—giving our foreign competitors
an unfair tax advantage.
• Wrings money from Main Street job creators,
by taxing small business owners at
tax rates near 45 percent.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015c-31c0-d476-abdf-7df235b70002
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-12-04 16:04:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Post by El Castor
Our tax system drives corporations to participate in these intricate
maneuvers to avoid paying taxes -- which they have a duty to their
shareholders to do. The end result -- taxes paid to foreign
governments and trillions stashed overseas, never to return, because
if it does return it will be taxed at our exorbitant rates. Business
is Global. Apple sells more iPhones overseas than it does in the US.
How can we expect a California corporation like Apple to pay more than
40% to the state and feds, and still compete with a Samsung that pays
the South Korean rate of 22%?
This discussion is not about taxes or economics. It's about the Left's
hatred and desire to punish "evil rich corporations". Well, sorry, I
would like to see the United States succeed. We will all benefit.
****************************************
• Drives American jobs, research,
and headquarters overseas to
countries with more competitive tax
codes.
• Hurts American manufacturing
by favoring foreign workers and
businesses over American workers
and businesses.
• Imposes the highest corporate tax
rate in the industrialized world—
effectively 39 percent when the 35
percent federal rate is combined
with the average state corporate tax
rate.
• Discourages global U.S.
businesses from bringing home
their foreign earnings to create jobs
and increase paychecks for American
workers.
• Devalues work done in the United States
by taxing “Made in America” products and
services—giving our foreign competitors
an unfair tax advantage.
• Wrings money from Main Street job creators,
by taxing small business owners at
tax rates near 45 percent.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015c-31c0-d476-abdf-7df235b70002
El Castor
2017-12-04 21:33:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Fixed by punishing corporations with more taxes? That would just make
matters worse. In the end, the cure for the debt will have to be a
strong economy.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Our tax system drives corporations to participate in these intricate
maneuvers to avoid paying taxes -- which they have a duty to their
shareholders to do. The end result -- taxes paid to foreign
governments and trillions stashed overseas, never to return, because
if it does return it will be taxed at our exorbitant rates. Business
is Global. Apple sells more iPhones overseas than it does in the US.
How can we expect a California corporation like Apple to pay more than
40% to the state and feds, and still compete with a Samsung that pays
the South Korean rate of 22%?
This discussion is not about taxes or economics. It's about the Left's
hatred and desire to punish "evil rich corporations". Well, sorry, I
would like to see the United States succeed. We will all benefit.
****************************************
• Drives American jobs, research,
and headquarters overseas to
countries with more competitive tax
codes.
• Hurts American manufacturing
by favoring foreign workers and
businesses over American workers
and businesses.
• Imposes the highest corporate tax
rate in the industrialized world—
effectively 39 percent when the 35
percent federal rate is combined
with the average state corporate tax
rate.
• Discourages global U.S.
businesses from bringing home
their foreign earnings to create jobs
and increase paychecks for American
workers.
• Devalues work done in the United States
by taxing “Made in America” products and
services—giving our foreign competitors
an unfair tax advantage.
• Wrings money from Main Street job creators,
by taxing small business owners at
tax rates near 45 percent.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015c-31c0-d476-abdf-7df235b70002
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-12-04 22:00:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Fixed by punishing corporations with more taxes?
No. By lowering marginal rates, closing loopholes and keeping the total
tax revenue the same.
Post by El Castor
That would just make
matters worse. In the end, the cure for the debt will have to be a
strong economy
El Castor
2017-12-05 07:48:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Fixed by punishing corporations with more taxes?
No. By lowering marginal rates, closing loopholes and keeping the total
tax revenue the same.
Perhaps, but if that is the case where is, or was, the Democrat
proposal? We had eight years of Obama, and ...
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
That would just make
matters worse. In the end, the cure for the debt will have to be a
strong economy
Josh Rosenbluth
2017-12-05 15:43:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Fixed by punishing corporations with more taxes?
No. By lowering marginal rates, closing loopholes and keeping the total
tax revenue the same.
Perhaps, but if that is the case where is, or was, the Democrat
proposal? We had eight years of Obama, and ...
As I understand it, Obama offered a rate of 28% and revenue neutrality.
Republicans didn't think that was low enough (but didn't want to further
cut loopholes to keep revenue neutrality).
islander
2017-12-05 15:12:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
Wasn't that supposed to come with loophole closing so that it was
revenue neutral?
Was it? I don't know
It was if the policy was to make sense. Our higher marginal corporate
rates than the rest of the word do not result in higher taxes being paid
(thanks to loopholes). So, the problem with higher marginal rates isn't
that we are collecting too much money. Instead, the higher marginal
rates plus loopholes result in market distortions that a lower marginal
rate without loopholes does away with.
Post by El Castor
and at this point don't much care.
I guess you don't care about the debt.
Is the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich a loophole? Is it?
It's a market distortion. That should have been fixed without
increasing the debt.
Fixed by punishing corporations with more taxes? That would just make
matters worse. In the end, the cure for the debt will have to be a
strong economy.
Yes, a strong economy is needed to support debt. The question is, how
to build a strong economy. If states are, indeed, the laboratories of
democracy they can tell us a great deal about how to stimulate a vibrant
economy. If you examine tax and debt policy across the states, while
taxes and debt are low in conservative states, it is the liberal states
that have the most vibrant economies and which recovered from the Great
Recession more quickly. In fact, if you look at debt from the point of
view of assets minus liabilities, liberal states do better than
conservative states. The bottom line is that the liberal states pay
more attention to the health and welfare of the general population.
Residents of liberal states are happier than residents of conservative
states and they not only work more productively, but they enjoy their
lives.
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Our tax system drives corporations to participate in these intricate
maneuvers to avoid paying taxes -- which they have a duty to their
shareholders to do. The end result -- taxes paid to foreign
governments and trillions stashed overseas, never to return, because
if it does return it will be taxed at our exorbitant rates. Business
is Global. Apple sells more iPhones overseas than it does in the US.
How can we expect a California corporation like Apple to pay more than
40% to the state and feds, and still compete with a Samsung that pays
the South Korean rate of 22%?
This discussion is not about taxes or economics. It's about the Left's
hatred and desire to punish "evil rich corporations". Well, sorry, I
would like to see the United States succeed. We will all benefit.
****************************************
• Drives American jobs, research,
and headquarters overseas to
countries with more competitive tax
codes.
• Hurts American manufacturing
by favoring foreign workers and
businesses over American workers
and businesses.
• Imposes the highest corporate tax
rate in the industrialized world—
effectively 39 percent when the 35
percent federal rate is combined
with the average state corporate tax
rate.
• Discourages global U.S.
businesses from bringing home
their foreign earnings to create jobs
and increase paychecks for American
workers.
• Devalues work done in the United States
by taxing “Made in America” products and
services—giving our foreign competitors
an unfair tax advantage.
• Wrings money from Main Street job creators,
by taxing small business owners at
tax rates near 45 percent.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000015c-31c0-d476-abdf-7df235b70002
islander
2017-12-03 02:02:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
El Castor
2017-12-03 09:55:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..

CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/

Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
islander
2017-12-03 14:59:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..
CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/
Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
There are two glaring problems in what the Tax Foundation reports,
problems that are similar to the ploy that you and other Republicans
insist on repeating.

First of all, we are talking about corporate *income* tax, not the total
taxes and fees paid by corporations as reported by the Tax Foundation.

Second, the Tax Foundation is citing the top marginal corporate income
tax rate, not the actual rate paid after all the loopholes (yes, the
states have them too) are exploited by corporations. My figures are
based on what is actually collected, not what the marginal rates are.

The elephant in the room is what state budget officers report, not as
income and sales tax, but a catch-all category of "other state funds."
The Tax Foundation misleadingly includes this grab-bag of sources of
revenue in their total taxes paid. While the politicians claim to be
reducing taxes, what is actually happening is the shift of revenue to
this category. The National Association of State Budget Officers report
a growth in this category earmarked for 25.7% of expenditures in 2008 to
39.3% in 2015. Conservative states are the worst offenders in this
subterfuge, something that the Tax Foundation conveniently ignores.
California is pretty low in this regard, with only about 17% of their
budget dependent on this category. Who is the worst offender? Ultra
conservative Wyoming at 60%. No wonder they have no corporate income tax!

http://www.nasbo.org/reports-data/state-expenditure-report/state-expenditure-archives
El Castor
2017-12-03 21:11:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..
CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/
Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
There are two glaring problems in what the Tax Foundation reports,
problems that are similar to the ploy that you and other Republicans
insist on repeating.
First of all, we are talking about corporate *income* tax, not the total
taxes and fees paid by corporations as reported by the Tax Foundation.
Second, the Tax Foundation is citing the top marginal corporate income
tax rate, not the actual rate paid after all the loopholes (yes, the
states have them too) are exploited by corporations. My figures are
based on what is actually collected, not what the marginal rates are.
The elephant in the room is what state budget officers report, not as
income and sales tax, but a catch-all category of "other state funds."
The Tax Foundation misleadingly includes this grab-bag of sources of
revenue in their total taxes paid. While the politicians claim to be
reducing taxes, what is actually happening is the shift of revenue to
this category. The National Association of State Budget Officers report
a growth in this category earmarked for 25.7% of expenditures in 2008 to
39.3% in 2015. Conservative states are the worst offenders in this
subterfuge, something that the Tax Foundation conveniently ignores.
California is pretty low in this regard, with only about 17% of their
budget dependent on this category. Who is the worst offender? Ultra
conservative Wyoming at 60%. No wonder they have no corporate income tax!
http://www.nasbo.org/reports-data/state-expenditure-report/state-expenditure-archives
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
islander
2017-12-04 02:00:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..
CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/
Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
There are two glaring problems in what the Tax Foundation reports,
problems that are similar to the ploy that you and other Republicans
insist on repeating.
First of all, we are talking about corporate *income* tax, not the total
taxes and fees paid by corporations as reported by the Tax Foundation.
Second, the Tax Foundation is citing the top marginal corporate income
tax rate, not the actual rate paid after all the loopholes (yes, the
states have them too) are exploited by corporations. My figures are
based on what is actually collected, not what the marginal rates are.
The elephant in the room is what state budget officers report, not as
income and sales tax, but a catch-all category of "other state funds."
The Tax Foundation misleadingly includes this grab-bag of sources of
revenue in their total taxes paid. While the politicians claim to be
reducing taxes, what is actually happening is the shift of revenue to
this category. The National Association of State Budget Officers report
a growth in this category earmarked for 25.7% of expenditures in 2008 to
39.3% in 2015. Conservative states are the worst offenders in this
subterfuge, something that the Tax Foundation conveniently ignores.
California is pretty low in this regard, with only about 17% of their
budget dependent on this category. Who is the worst offender? Ultra
conservative Wyoming at 60%. No wonder they have no corporate income tax!
http://www.nasbo.org/reports-data/state-expenditure-report/state-expenditure-archives
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
As pertains federal government, Obama only had a filibuster proof
majority for a few months in late 2009. Otherwise, he had to overcome
Republican opposition to everything that he proposed. As it was, he
still accomplished a great deal which the Republicans are now attempting
to overturn.

I suppose you are opposed to what the consumer finance protection bureau
has accomplished. Of course you are!
El Castor
2017-12-04 07:12:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..
CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/
Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
There are two glaring problems in what the Tax Foundation reports,
problems that are similar to the ploy that you and other Republicans
insist on repeating.
First of all, we are talking about corporate *income* tax, not the total
taxes and fees paid by corporations as reported by the Tax Foundation.
Second, the Tax Foundation is citing the top marginal corporate income
tax rate, not the actual rate paid after all the loopholes (yes, the
states have them too) are exploited by corporations. My figures are
based on what is actually collected, not what the marginal rates are.
The elephant in the room is what state budget officers report, not as
income and sales tax, but a catch-all category of "other state funds."
The Tax Foundation misleadingly includes this grab-bag of sources of
revenue in their total taxes paid. While the politicians claim to be
reducing taxes, what is actually happening is the shift of revenue to
this category. The National Association of State Budget Officers report
a growth in this category earmarked for 25.7% of expenditures in 2008 to
39.3% in 2015. Conservative states are the worst offenders in this
subterfuge, something that the Tax Foundation conveniently ignores.
California is pretty low in this regard, with only about 17% of their
budget dependent on this category. Who is the worst offender? Ultra
conservative Wyoming at 60%. No wonder they have no corporate income tax!
http://www.nasbo.org/reports-data/state-expenditure-report/state-expenditure-archives
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
As pertains federal government, Obama only had a filibuster proof
majority for a few months in late 2009. Otherwise, he had to overcome
Republican opposition to everything that he proposed. As it was, he
still accomplished a great deal which the Republicans are now attempting
to overturn.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Democrats had a clear
majority in both the House and Senate for the first two years of
Obama's presidency. The may not have had 60 votes in the Senate for
two years, but they had a majority. Republicans passed their tax bill
with 51 votes. Where was Obama's tax legislation --the proposals? An
attempt to sell the voters?
Post by islander
I suppose you are opposed to what the consumer finance protection bureau
has accomplished. Of course you are!
Not necessarily, but you and I are not in a position to judge the
volumes of regulation that the bureau has generated. Maybe good, maybe
some not so good, but I do find the following very disturbing, and you
should too ...

"On Tuesday, a Washington, D.C. circuit court found the structure of
the CFPB to be unconstitutional. More specifically, the court took
issue with the inability for other arms of the government to review or
rebuke the Bureau’s judgements or actions and the unilateral power
imbued in the CFPB’s director—currently Richard Cordray."

The judgement states:
"The Director enjoys significantly more unilateral power than any
single member of any other independent agency. By “unilateral power,”
we mean power that is not checked by the President or by other
colleagues. Indeed, other than the President, the Director of the CFPB
is the single most powerful official in the entire United States
Government, at least when measured in terms of unilateral power."
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/court-rules-consumer-financial-protection-bureaus-structure-is-unconstitutional/503660/
islander
2017-12-04 15:10:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Various factions had an axe to grind, so you can be sure that each
carefully perused the part dealing with their axe. In any case, this
is just a first draft. They still have to get together with the House
and produce a final draft -- so more axes will be ground.
At least we got the 20% corporate tax, which is what interested me --
although it is not as low as I would have liked -- after you add in
the state corp taxes. Too bad Trump couldn't have stuck with 15% --
that would have gotten us down into Sweden territory.
What state corporate taxes? The states that actually have a corporate
tax rate it amounts for less than 2% of total state tax revenue. Many
states (including WA) have no corporate tax. How severe is it? It
averages about $150 per capita as compared with an average of $1,000 per
capita individual income tax and $1,500 sales and gross receipts tax.
Hardly a big deal.
Good for Washington and the five other states without corporate taxes,
but as for the remaining 44 ... Here are a few..
CA 8.84%
AK 9.40%
IA 12% (the worst)
MN 8.8%
PA 9.99%
NJ 9%
Etc.
DC even has one -- 9.40%
https://taxfoundation.org/state-corporate-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2016/
Get corporate taxes down and give corporations an incentive to
repatriate the $2 trillion+ that they have stashed overseas and in
this age of automation they may find it advantageous to return
manufacturing to the US. Foreign manufacturers may do the same to
escape their own taxes and shipping costs to the US.
There are two glaring problems in what the Tax Foundation reports,
problems that are similar to the ploy that you and other Republicans
insist on repeating.
First of all, we are talking about corporate *income* tax, not the total
taxes and fees paid by corporations as reported by the Tax Foundation.
Second, the Tax Foundation is citing the top marginal corporate income
tax rate, not the actual rate paid after all the loopholes (yes, the
states have them too) are exploited by corporations. My figures are
based on what is actually collected, not what the marginal rates are.
The elephant in the room is what state budget officers report, not as
income and sales tax, but a catch-all category of "other state funds."
The Tax Foundation misleadingly includes this grab-bag of sources of
revenue in their total taxes paid. While the politicians claim to be
reducing taxes, what is actually happening is the shift of revenue to
this category. The National Association of State Budget Officers report
a growth in this category earmarked for 25.7% of expenditures in 2008 to
39.3% in 2015. Conservative states are the worst offenders in this
subterfuge, something that the Tax Foundation conveniently ignores.
California is pretty low in this regard, with only about 17% of their
budget dependent on this category. Who is the worst offender? Ultra
conservative Wyoming at 60%. No wonder they have no corporate income tax!
http://www.nasbo.org/reports-data/state-expenditure-report/state-expenditure-archives
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
As pertains federal government, Obama only had a filibuster proof
majority for a few months in late 2009. Otherwise, he had to overcome
Republican opposition to everything that he proposed. As it was, he
still accomplished a great deal which the Republicans are now attempting
to overturn.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Democrats had a clear
majority in both the House and Senate for the first two years of
Obama's presidency. The may not have had 60 votes in the Senate for
two years, but they had a majority. Republicans passed their tax bill
with 51 votes. Where was Obama's tax legislation --the proposals? An
attempt to sell the voters?
I fault Harry Reid for not having the courage to invoke the nuclear
option until way too late in the Obama administration.
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
I suppose you are opposed to what the consumer finance protection bureau
has accomplished. Of course you are!
Not necessarily, but you and I are not in a position to judge the
volumes of regulation that the bureau has generated. Maybe good, maybe
some not so good, but I do find the following very disturbing, and you
should too ...
"On Tuesday, a Washington, D.C. circuit court found the structure of
the CFPB to be unconstitutional. More specifically, the court took
issue with the inability for other arms of the government to review or
rebuke the Bureau’s judgements or actions and the unilateral power
imbued in the CFPB’s director—currently Richard Cordray."
"The Director enjoys significantly more unilateral power than any
single member of any other independent agency. By “unilateral power,”
we mean power that is not checked by the President or by other
colleagues. Indeed, other than the President, the Director of the CFPB
is the single most powerful official in the entire United States
Government, at least when measured in terms of unilateral power."
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/court-rules-consumer-financial-protection-bureaus-structure-is-unconstitutional/503660/
The decision by the whole court is still pending, but what you are
seeing has nothing to do with constitutionality. It is about the
continuing effort to dismantle the CFPB by whatever means possible.
Trump will be appointing a director who will be instrumental in
dismantling the bureau. The public loses again!
Emily
2017-12-04 15:56:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 13:11:14 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
Can you possibly believe that that bunch of incompetent jackasses who
now have all the power are going to do anything positive? But given
that you believe cutting the corporate tax rate to infinitesimal is
going to bring all that money and all those businesses back to the
USA, I suppose you do. Sad.
El Castor
2017-12-04 21:43:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Emily
On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 13:11:14 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
Can you possibly believe that that bunch of incompetent jackasses who
now have all the power are going to do anything positive? But given
that you believe cutting the corporate tax rate to infinitesimal is
going to bring all that money and all those businesses back to the
USA, I suppose you do. Sad.
It may not bring all of it back, but that is not the sole purpose of
bringing our corporate taxation in line with the rest of the world --
it is making US business more competitive in a global economy. I
majored in economics and worked in banking and finance for 30 years,
and sorry, but I am rabid on this subject. (-8
Emily
2017-12-04 23:29:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 13:43:09 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Emily
On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 13:11:14 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Bitch and moan. You had 8 years of Obama to do what you wished. You
liberals did nothing, proposed nothing, fixed nothing. You had your
chance. Now you can just sit back and watch adults do the job.
Can you possibly believe that that bunch of incompetent jackasses who
now have all the power are going to do anything positive? But given
that you believe cutting the corporate tax rate to infinitesimal is
going to bring all that money and all those businesses back to the
USA, I suppose you do. Sad.
It may not bring all of it back, but that is not the sole purpose of
bringing our corporate taxation in line with the rest of the world --
it is making US business more competitive in a global economy. I
majored in economics and worked in banking and finance for 30 years,
and sorry, but I am rabid on this subject. (-8
I have never understood anything much about economics except for the
basics - don't spend more than you make, don't fall for get-rich-quick
schemes, save for a rainy day. But I suppose that's obvious.

It just seems to me that we were perking along really well after WWII
until Reagan came to power and whacked the hell out of the corporate
tax rate and then the good times for the middle class started a steady
decline.

I suppose even if Reagan and everyone after him had done great things
for the poor and middle class, we'd still be up the creek with the
global economy. How can we compete with countries where the workers
make 15¢ an hour? How can we cope with robots taking our jobs?

I think it's time for us to throw in the towel with being the world's
super power. Let someone else run the show for a while.
me
2017-12-05 00:21:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Emily
I have never understood anything much about economics except for the
basics - don't spend more than you make, don't fall for get-rich-quick
schemes, save for a rainy day. But I suppose that's obvious.
It just seems to me that we were perking along really well after WWII
until Reagan came to power and whacked the hell out of the corporate
tax rate and then the good times for the middle class started a steady
decline.
Looks like you don't understand much about the US Constitution either.
Inconvenient truth:

In the US the House writes tax and spend laws. The House has been controlled by Democrats for most of the past 100 years including the Reagan years but not the Clinton or second Obama years. If you have a tax and or spend problem try to remember this.
Loading Image...
Post by Emily
I suppose even if Reagan and everyone after him had done great things
for the poor and middle class, we'd still be up the creek with the
global economy. How can we compete with countries where the workers
make 15¢ an hour? How can we cope with robots taking our jobs?
I think it's time for us to throw in the towel with being the world's
super power. Let someone else run the show for a while.
So it will be. So it has always been. Eventually the next show runner will also be replaced for similar reasons - the expectation of entitlement and inability to pay for that entitlement.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-12-05 01:15:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 18:29:17 -0500, Emily <***@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
Post by Emily
I have never understood anything much about economics except for the
basics - don't spend more than you make, don't fall for get-rich-quick
schemes, save for a rainy day. But I suppose that's obvious.
I think it's obvious to everybody but economists!
Post by Emily
It just seems to me that we were perking along really well after WWII
until Reagan came to power and whacked the hell out of the corporate
tax rate and then the good times for the middle class started a steady
decline.
I suppose even if Reagan and everyone after him had done great things
for the poor and middle class, we'd still be up the creek with the
global economy. How can we compete with countries where the workers
make 15¢ an hour? How can we cope with robots taking our jobs?
Everybody seems to disagree with me, but I still
say "Tariffs". I'd also add that any company
"offshoring" its profits to avoid taxes should not
be allowed to sell its goods in the USA without
paying a tariff-like fee on everything sold.
Post by Emily
I think it's time for us to throw in the towel with being the world's
super power. Let someone else run the show for a while.
I wouldn't like to see North Korea and Pakistan
running hog wild without a major power to stop
them, but the USA sure has made a mell of a
hess everywhere it's made war in the Middle
East. If big business wants to make profits
by controlling other countries without a trace
of morality, let them fight the wars themselves
instead of controlling USA elections with bribe
money (very cheap considering the rewards to
them) so as to get the common people of the
USA to fight and finance such wars for their
benefit.
Emily
2017-12-05 01:46:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by Emily
I have never understood anything much about economics except for the
basics - don't spend more than you make, don't fall for get-rich-quick
schemes, save for a rainy day. But I suppose that's obvious.
I think it's obvious to everybody but economists!
Post by Emily
It just seems to me that we were perking along really well after WWII
until Reagan came to power and whacked the hell out of the corporate
tax rate and then the good times for the middle class started a steady
decline.
I suppose even if Reagan and everyone after him had done great things
for the poor and middle class, we'd still be up the creek with the
global economy. How can we compete with countries where the workers
make 15¢ an hour? How can we cope with robots taking our jobs?
Everybody seems to disagree with me, but I still
say "Tariffs". I'd also add that any company
"offshoring" its profits to avoid taxes should not
be allowed to sell its goods in the USA without
paying a tariff-like fee on everything sold.
A concept clearly above my pay grade.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Emily
I think it's time for us to throw in the towel with being the world's
super power. Let someone else run the show for a while.
I wouldn't like to see North Korea and Pakistan
running hog wild without a major power to stop
them, but the USA sure has made a mell of a
hess everywhere it's made war in the Middle
East. If big business wants to make profits
by controlling other countries without a trace
of morality, let them fight the wars themselves
instead of controlling USA elections with bribe
money (very cheap considering the rewards to
them) so as to get the common people of the
USA to fight and finance such wars for their
benefit.
Do you think Russia or China would permit North Korea and Pakistan to
run wild?

But I agree with you about letting the corporations fight the wars.
Let Eric Prince run the War Department.

And they make sure they have warm bodies to go off and fight these
endless, ill-conceived wars by waving the flag at every opportunity
and yapping about supporting our troops. You're a hero if you die for
your country.
rumpelstiltskin
2017-12-05 17:56:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Emily
Post by rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
Post by Emily
I have never understood anything much about economics except for the
basics - don't spend more than you make, don't fall for get-rich-quick
schemes, save for a rainy day. But I suppose that's obvious.
I think it's obvious to everybody but economists!
Post by Emily
It just seems to me that we were perking along really well after WWII
until Reagan came to power and whacked the hell out of the corporate
tax rate and then the good times for the middle class started a steady
decline.
I suppose even if Reagan and everyone after him had done great things
for the poor and middle class, we'd still be up the creek with the
global economy. How can we compete with countries where the workers
make 15¢ an hour? How can we cope with robots taking our jobs?
Everybody seems to disagree with me, but I still
say "Tariffs". I'd also add that any company
"offshoring" its profits to avoid taxes should not
be allowed to sell its goods in the USA without
paying a tariff-like fee on everything sold.
A concept clearly above my pay grade.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by Emily
I think it's time for us to throw in the towel with being the world's
super power. Let someone else run the show for a while.
I wouldn't like to see North Korea and Pakistan
running hog wild without a major power to stop
them, but the USA sure has made a mell of a
hess everywhere it's made war in the Middle
East. If big business wants to make profits
by controlling other countries without a trace
of morality, let them fight the wars themselves
instead of controlling USA elections with bribe
money (very cheap considering the rewards to
them) so as to get the common people of the
USA to fight and finance such wars for their
benefit.
Do you think Russia or China would permit North Korea and Pakistan to
run wild?
I hope not, but everybody seems to expect the USA to
step up first these days.
Post by Emily
But I agree with you about letting the corporations fight the wars.
Let Eric Prince run the War Department.
And they make sure they have warm bodies to go off and fight these
endless, ill-conceived wars by waving the flag at every opportunity
and yapping about supporting our troops. You're a hero if you die for
your country.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.



-- Wilfred Owen, regarded as the greatest
of the WWI poets. He was killed at age
25 near the end of the war. Benjamin
Britten's "War Requiem" is set to the
text of some of Owen's poems.


The Latin is from an ode of Horace, and means
"It is sweet and Honourable to die for one's country"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_et_decorum_est_pro_patria_mori
GLOBALIST
2017-12-02 22:12:47 UTC
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Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Would seem to me that they have enough staff members and
they also owe it to their voters to read it.
Also if they were involved in forming the bill and adding
their own input they would know what was in it
I think it is supreme arrogance to NOT read it
Then they turn around and say: "Oh we weren't
even allowed to read it" Bullshit.
wolfbat359
2017-12-02 22:37:20 UTC
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Post by me
Evidently words no longer matter. Why bother reading?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/major-victory-trump-senate-passes-tax-cut-bill-which-nobody-read-heres-whats-it
Why I thought you were against increased deficits?
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