Discussion:
Is the Mormon Church is Going Downhill !
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Gary
2018-05-05 18:58:58 UTC
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Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------

Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
gay marriage despite her religion's opposition for a simple reason:
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
mg
2018-05-06 09:44:33 UTC
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Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.

I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.

In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
Gary
2018-05-06 12:15:07 UTC
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Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)

They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
mg
2018-05-08 04:03:49 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.

However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
El Castor
2018-05-08 07:22:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
mg
2018-05-08 10:56:20 UTC
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On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.

As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-05-08 14:29:50 UTC
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Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
There are "traditional" and "reformed" Jews. I've never
known a "traditional" Jew though I have seen them around.
They have the funny sideburns, and the black hats that
look like an extremely shortened version of the Stovepipe
hats that Abraham Lincoln wore. They don't seem to
interact with infidels but they do seem to me, instinctively,
pretty scary. The "reformed" Jews are sometimes very
religious though their very-religiousness is not anywhere
near as scary as the Christian version. Usually though,
they're perfectly normal atheists like you and me, but hold
on to ritual observations out of a sense of tradition and a
respect for their ancestors. They're not scary at all, and
are as friendly and rational as atheists, though if one
attacks Judaism they're not going to like it.
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
It may not be radical to you, but I'm gay, and it's been
extremely radical toward "my people". They've backed
off that now, due to intense criticism from normal people
and the fact that they realize how vulnerable they are, as
a minority religion that already seems pretty wacko to
normal people. I'm not about to forget, though, what
they'd REALLY like to do if they thought they could get
away with it.
mg
2018-05-08 17:25:42 UTC
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Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
There are "traditional" and "reformed" Jews. I've never
known a "traditional" Jew though I have seen them around.
They have the funny sideburns, and the black hats that
look like an extremely shortened version of the Stovepipe
hats that Abraham Lincoln wore. They don't seem to
interact with infidels but they do seem to me, instinctively,
pretty scary. The "reformed" Jews are sometimes very
religious though their very-religiousness is not anywhere
near as scary as the Christian version. Usually though,
they're perfectly normal atheists like you and me, but hold
on to ritual observations out of a sense of tradition and a
respect for their ancestors. They're not scary at all, and
are as friendly and rational as atheists, though if one
attacks Judaism they're not going to like it.
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
It may not be radical to you, but I'm gay, and it's been
extremely radical toward "my people". They've backed
off that now, due to intense criticism from normal people
and the fact that they realize how vulnerable they are, as
a minority religion that already seems pretty wacko to
normal people. I'm not about to forget, though, what
they'd REALLY like to do if they thought they could get
away with it.
The Mormons have basically treated me like shit for as long as I can
remember. So, I know exactly what you mean. I understand completely
and 100%. Actually, I also have similar feelings about the new-style
Democrats who never actually did anything to me, but sold my children
and grand children down the river.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-05-08 20:53:26 UTC
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Post by mg
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by mg
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
It may not be radical to you, but I'm gay, and it's been
extremely radical toward "my people". The've backed
off that now, due to intense criticism from normal people
and the fact that they realize how vulnerable they are, as
a minority religion that already seems pretty wacko to
normal people. I'm not about to forget, though, what
they'd REALLY like to do if they thought they could get
away with it.
The Mormons have basically treated me like shit for as long as I can
remember. So, I know exactly what you mean. I understand completely
and 100%. Actually, I also have similar feelings about the new-style
Democrats who never actually did anything to me, but sold my children
and grand children down the river.
You posted here about the well-named "Cassandra syndrome".
That may be the inevitable, or almost inevitable, direction toward
demise of countless other civilizations in the universe, assuming
there have been other civilizations. Unfortunately this current
great extinction on Earth, which unlike the first five is being
caused by a single living animal, may succeed in wiping out all
life on earth because, being the work of a single animal, it's
"intentional" rather than merely "casual". Thus we may press
on, finding more and more ways to complete the destruction
until we run out of options because, no matter how hard we
look for more stopgaps, there eventually won't be any left.
mg
2018-05-09 21:13:00 UTC
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Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
<snip>
Post by mg
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by mg
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
It may not be radical to you, but I'm gay, and it's been
extremely radical toward "my people". The've backed
off that now, due to intense criticism from normal people
and the fact that they realize how vulnerable they are, as
a minority religion that already seems pretty wacko to
normal people. I'm not about to forget, though, what
they'd REALLY like to do if they thought they could get
away with it.
The Mormons have basically treated me like shit for as long as I can
remember. So, I know exactly what you mean. I understand completely
and 100%. Actually, I also have similar feelings about the new-style
Democrats who never actually did anything to me, but sold my children
and grand children down the river.
You posted here about the well-named "Cassandra syndrome".
That may be the inevitable, or almost inevitable, direction toward
demise of countless other civilizations in the universe, assuming
there have been other civilizations. Unfortunately this current
great extinction on Earth, which unlike the first five is being
caused by a single living animal, may succeed in wiping out all
life on earth because, being the work of a single animal, it's
"intentional" rather than merely "casual". Thus we may press
on, finding more and more ways to complete the destruction
until we run out of options because, no matter how hard we
look for more stopgaps, there eventually won't be any left.
I think there is a basic conflict, I think, between most human
associations and organizations, of any type: religions, corporations,
political parties, governments, labor unions, Medical Associations,
etc., and what is best for the individual and that's why I often
wonder if, in the long run, there's any form of government which can
save man from himself.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-05-10 04:54:45 UTC
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Post by mg
I think there is a basic conflict, I think, between most human
associations and organizations, of any type: religions, corporations,
political parties, governments, labor unions, Medical Associations,
etc., and what is best for the individual and that's why I often
wonder if, in the long run, there's any form of government which can
save man from himself.
I guess I'd have to say "no", since I see no reason to
say "yes".
El Castor
2018-05-08 19:26:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
I can't quite agree about Muslims. The two basic forms of Islam
(Shiite and Sunni) are not subject to change, and even suggesting that
they should be can get a Muslim killed, but that does not mean that
Muslims can't strategize in their efforts to influence and convert
Infidels. Lying to the Infidel in the interests of Islam is not only
permitted, it's encouraged. Do this, or permit that, and demands will
be satisfied and peace restored. Islam has gained control of 50
countries around the world using exactly those strategies. Eventually,
Islam becomes so pervasive in a country that Infidels either convert,
or go along to get along.
Post by mg
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
mg
2018-05-08 20:38:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 08 May 2018 12:26:22 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
I can't quite agree about Muslims. The two basic forms of Islam
(Shiite and Sunni) are not subject to change, and even suggesting that
they should be can get a Muslim killed, but that does not mean that
Muslims can't strategize in their efforts to influence and convert
Infidels. Lying to the Infidel in the interests of Islam is not only
permitted, it's encouraged. Do this, or permit that, and demands will
be satisfied and peace restored. Islam has gained control of 50
countries around the world using exactly those strategies. Eventually,
Islam becomes so pervasive in a country that Infidels either convert,
or go along to get along.
Post by mg
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
I didn't know that, but it does make sense, I guess, since Islam
started (in a cave) in Saudi Arabia and spread to many countries,
around the world from there. There's an article at the following
website describing how Islam spread to Africa, for instance:
http://www.answers.com/Q/List_of_Islamic_countries_in_Africa
El Castor
2018-05-09 06:49:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 12:26:22 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
I can't quite agree about Muslims. The two basic forms of Islam
(Shiite and Sunni) are not subject to change, and even suggesting that
they should be can get a Muslim killed, but that does not mean that
Muslims can't strategize in their efforts to influence and convert
Infidels. Lying to the Infidel in the interests of Islam is not only
permitted, it's encouraged. Do this, or permit that, and demands will
be satisfied and peace restored. Islam has gained control of 50
countries around the world using exactly those strategies. Eventually,
Islam becomes so pervasive in a country that Infidels either convert,
or go along to get along.
Post by mg
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
I didn't know that, but it does make sense, I guess, since Islam
started (in a cave) in Saudi Arabia and spread to many countries,
around the world from there. There's an article at the following
http://www.answers.com/Q/List_of_Islamic_countries_in_Africa
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...

"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html

Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...

"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1

Anyhow, the number of Muslims in the US is relatively small, but not
so for Europe. May be too late for them.
mg
2018-05-09 12:17:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 12:26:22 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
I totally agree that there is a world of difference between Jews and
Muslims. In fact, I admire Jews in a lot of ways, and would likely
enjoy having one for a neighbor, for instance and I certainly wouldn't
say that about a Muslim. Nevertheless, I do think the two religions
are similar in the very narrow sense that neither one of them would
change their religion to get more "customers", or to be more popular.
I can't quite agree about Muslims. The two basic forms of Islam
(Shiite and Sunni) are not subject to change, and even suggesting that
they should be can get a Muslim killed, but that does not mean that
Muslims can't strategize in their efforts to influence and convert
Infidels. Lying to the Infidel in the interests of Islam is not only
permitted, it's encouraged. Do this, or permit that, and demands will
be satisfied and peace restored. Islam has gained control of 50
countries around the world using exactly those strategies. Eventually,
Islam becomes so pervasive in a country that Infidels either convert,
or go along to get along.
Post by mg
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
I didn't know that, but it does make sense, I guess, since Islam
started (in a cave) in Saudi Arabia and spread to many countries,
around the world from there. There's an article at the following
http://www.answers.com/Q/List_of_Islamic_countries_in_Africa
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
Anyhow, the number of Muslims in the US is relatively small, but not
so for Europe. May be too late for them.
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are. And in addition, there's the potential problem
that Muslims have an extremely high fertility rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth
Gary
2018-05-09 14:15:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 12:26:22 -0700, El Castor
Post by mg
As you said, Jews don't proselytize and Muslims, of course, believe
that Muhammad is the last prophet and the only correct one and whose
teachings are free from distortions or corruption and, therefore,
cannot be changed.
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
I didn't know that, but it does make sense, I guess, since Islam
started (in a cave) in Saudi Arabia and spread to many countries,
around the world from there. There's an article at the following
http://www.answers.com/Q/List_of_Islamic_countries_in_Africa
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
Anyhow, the number of Muslims in the US is relatively small, but not
so for Europe. May be too late for them.
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are. And in addition, there's the potential problem
that Muslims have an extremely high fertility rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth
They are the true believers in the old saying:

"Keep her barefoot and pregnant".
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-09 15:00:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.

The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Gary
2018-05-09 16:48:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
That is only because the Founding Fathers had never had any experience
with anybody but Christians. (and a few Jews) All they had seen was
Baptists, Methodists and some Catholics. If they had ever lived
near some Muslims, they would have written in the Constitution ---
"We shall remain a Judeo/Christian country".
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
I think our being required to "treat them equally" is what prevented
us from becoming the greatest country ever. Throughout history --
the only "great" countries have been those with a single (mono)
culture. "Multi" has always gone into the cesspool.
El Castor
2018-05-09 19:54:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe? Sharia
finance seems harmless enough, but that is just a first step. Then we
move on to Sharia Courts -- initially sold as innocuous religious
institutions which aid in settling family disputes -- but remember
this is Islam -- not some romantic fantasy. Here is how it works in
Europe.

"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html

"One woman’s brush with Sharia courts in the UK: "It ruined my life
forever"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rahila-gupta/one-woman-s-brush-with-sharia-courts-in-uk

"Sweden takes steps to establish Sharia Law, rules in favor of child
marriages"
http://www.thomasdishaw.com/sweden-takes-step-closer-establishing-sharia-law-rules-favor-child-marriages/

"When the 'Arab Street' Comes to Sweden
Anti-Jewish violence spreads to liberal Europe"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-11/when-the-arab-street-comes-to-sweden

"British girls are being sold as child brides like I was, says women's
rights campaigner"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-girls-sold-child-brides-gabriella-gillespie-yemen-issy-womens-rights-campaigners-a7617621.html

"Germany: Chechen Sharia Police Terrorize Berlin"
"A hundred Islamists are now openly enforcing Sharia law on the
streets of Berlin, according to local police who are investigating a
recent string of violent assaults in the German capital."
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10632/germany-chechens

"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?
For half a century, memories of the Holocaust limited anti-Semitism on
the Continent. That period has ended—the recent fatal attacks in Paris
and Copenhagen are merely the latest examples of rising violence
against Jews. Renewed vitriol among right-wing fascists and new
threats from radicalized Islamists have created a crisis, confronting
Jews with an agonizing choice."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-09 20:38:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
Post by El Castor
Sharia
finance seems harmless enough, but that is just a first step. Then we
move on to Sharia Courts -- initially sold as innocuous religious
institutions which aid in settling family disputes -- but remember
this is Islam -- not some romantic fantasy. Here is how it works in
Europe.
"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html
"One woman’s brush with Sharia courts in the UK: "It ruined my life
forever"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rahila-gupta/one-woman-s-brush-with-sharia-courts-in-uk
"Sweden takes steps to establish Sharia Law, rules in favor of child
marriages"
http://www.thomasdishaw.com/sweden-takes-step-closer-establishing-sharia-law-rules-favor-child-marriages/
"When the 'Arab Street' Comes to Sweden
Anti-Jewish violence spreads to liberal Europe"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-11/when-the-arab-street-comes-to-sweden
"British girls are being sold as child brides like I was, says women's
rights campaigner"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-girls-sold-child-brides-gabriella-gillespie-yemen-issy-womens-rights-campaigners-a7617621.html
"Germany: Chechen Sharia Police Terrorize Berlin"
"A hundred Islamists are now openly enforcing Sharia law on the
streets of Berlin, according to local police who are investigating a
recent string of violent assaults in the German capital."
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10632/germany-chechens
"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?
For half a century, memories of the Holocaust limited anti-Semitism on
the Continent. That period has ended—the recent fatal attacks in Paris
and Copenhagen are merely the latest examples of rising violence
against Jews. Renewed vitriol among right-wing fascists and new
threats from radicalized Islamists have created a crisis, confronting
Jews with an agonizing choice."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
b***@gmail.com
2018-05-09 22:21:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
Interesting some states have already banned Sharia Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_on_sharia_law

"A ban on sharia law is legislation which prohibits the application or implementation of Islamic law (sharia) in courts in any civil (non-religious) jurisdiction. In the United States, various states have "banned Sharia law", or passed some kind of ballot measure that "prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law." As of 2014 these include Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee.[1]. In Canada, Sharia law is explicitly banned in Quebec, upheld by a unanimous vote against it in 2005 by the National Assembly,[2] while the province of Ontario allows family law disputes to be arbitrated only under Ontario law.[3]"

And here's another one about the Pledge of Allegiance:

http://allnewspipeline.com/School_Pledge_In_Arabic_Substitutes_Allah_For_God.php


"A school in New York has been forced to apologize after having students recite the pledge of allegiance in Arabic while leaving out 'God'. Angering countless US Veterans who fought for and won the right for Americans to have the freedom to say the 'Pledge of Allegiance' in English, Pine Brook High School in New York high school succeeded in enraging its' students, parents, US Veterans and now much of the nation for a recent recitement of the 'Pledge' that was done in the Arabic language and substituted 'One Nation Under Allah' for God, prompting a viral outpouring of anger, as shared in the newly released videos below."


Contents
1 United States
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Sharia
finance seems harmless enough, but that is just a first step. Then we
move on to Sharia Courts -- initially sold as innocuous religious
institutions which aid in settling family disputes -- but remember
this is Islam -- not some romantic fantasy. Here is how it works in
Europe.
"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html
"One woman’s brush with Sharia courts in the UK: "It ruined my life
forever"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rahila-gupta/one-woman-s-brush-with-sharia-courts-in-uk
"Sweden takes steps to establish Sharia Law, rules in favor of child
marriages"
http://www.thomasdishaw.com/sweden-takes-step-closer-establishing-sharia-law-rules-favor-child-marriages/
"When the 'Arab Street' Comes to Sweden
Anti-Jewish violence spreads to liberal Europe"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-11/when-the-arab-street-comes-to-sweden
"British girls are being sold as child brides like I was, says women's
rights campaigner"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-girls-sold-child-brides-gabriella-gillespie-yemen-issy-womens-rights-campaigners-a7617621.html
"Germany: Chechen Sharia Police Terrorize Berlin"
"A hundred Islamists are now openly enforcing Sharia law on the
streets of Berlin, according to local police who are investigating a
recent string of violent assaults in the German capital."
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10632/germany-chechens
"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?
For half a century, memories of the Holocaust limited anti-Semitism on
the Continent. That period has ended—the recent fatal attacks in Paris
and Copenhagen are merely the latest examples of rising violence
against Jews. Renewed vitriol among right-wing fascists and new
threats from radicalized Islamists have created a crisis, confronting
Jews with an agonizing choice."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-10 03:07:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
Interesting some states have already banned Sharia Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_on_sharia_law
"A ban on sharia law is legislation which prohibits the application or implementation of Islamic law (sharia) in courts in any civil (non-religious) jurisdiction. In the United States, various states have "banned Sharia law", or passed some kind of ballot measure that "prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law." As of 2014 these include Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee.[1]. In Canada, Sharia law is explicitly banned in Quebec, upheld by a unanimous vote against it in 2005 by the National Assembly,[2] while the province of Ontario allows family law disputes to be arbitrated only under Ontario law.[3]"
The Wiki article notes that the Oklahoma law was invalidated because it
violated the Constitution and discuss why such laws are also bad policy
(my link above goes into much greater detail).
rumpelstiltskin
2018-05-10 04:54:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
Interesting some states have already banned Sharia Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_on_sharia_law
"A ban on sharia law is legislation which prohibits the application or implementation of Islamic law (sharia) in courts in any civil (non-religious) jurisdiction. In the United States, various states have "banned Sharia law", or passed some kind of ballot measure that "prohibits the states courts from considering foreign, international or religious law." As of 2014 these include Alabama, Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Dakota and Tennessee.[1]. In Canada, Sharia law is explicitly banned in Quebec, upheld by a unanimous vote against it in 2005 by the National Assembly,[2] while the province of Ontario allows family law disputes to be arbitrated only under Ontario law.[3]"
http://allnewspipeline.com/School_Pledge_In_Arabic_Substitutes_Allah_For_God.php
"A school in New York has been forced to apologize after having students recite the pledge of allegiance in Arabic while leaving out 'God'. Angering countless US Veterans who fought for and won the right for Americans to have the freedom to say the 'Pledge of Allegiance' in English, Pine Brook High School in New York high school succeeded in enraging its' students, parents, US Veterans and now much of the nation for a recent recitement of the 'Pledge' that was done in the Arabic language and substituted 'One Nation Under Allah' for God, prompting a viral outpouring of anger, as shared in the newly released videos below."
I came to the USA in 1951 or '52, and must have already
been an atheist because I was very offended when "under
god" was added to the pledge (in 1954 or so I'm told). I
remember saying those two words at least once, but felt
bad about it right from the start. and soon kept my mouth
closed for those two words. In High School we had to
recite the pledge collectively in Political Indoctrination
class, and I conspicuously kept my mouth tightly shut for
those two words while staring directly at the teacher who
was often staring right back at me. If one wants the right
to say "god", then IMV it's hypocritical to forbid Muslims
to say "Allah", or to forbid non-fairy-tale-ists from saying
nothing at all. Religion is and does evil IMV, and forced
support of religion is also evil.
Post by b***@gmail.com
Contents
1 United States
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Sharia
finance seems harmless enough, but that is just a first step. Then we
move on to Sharia Courts -- initially sold as innocuous religious
institutions which aid in settling family disputes -- but remember
this is Islam -- not some romantic fantasy. Here is how it works in
Europe.
"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html
"One woman’s brush with Sharia courts in the UK: "It ruined my life
forever"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rahila-gupta/one-woman-s-brush-with-sharia-courts-in-uk
"Sweden takes steps to establish Sharia Law, rules in favor of child
marriages"
http://www.thomasdishaw.com/sweden-takes-step-closer-establishing-sharia-law-rules-favor-child-marriages/
"When the 'Arab Street' Comes to Sweden
Anti-Jewish violence spreads to liberal Europe"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-11/when-the-arab-street-comes-to-sweden
"British girls are being sold as child brides like I was, says women's
rights campaigner"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-girls-sold-child-brides-gabriella-gillespie-yemen-issy-womens-rights-campaigners-a7617621.html
"Germany: Chechen Sharia Police Terrorize Berlin"
"A hundred Islamists are now openly enforcing Sharia law on the
streets of Berlin, according to local police who are investigating a
recent string of violent assaults in the German capital."
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10632/germany-chechens
"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?
For half a century, memories of the Holocaust limited anti-Semitism on
the Continent. That period has ended—the recent fatal attacks in Paris
and Copenhagen are merely the latest examples of rising violence
against Jews. Renewed vitriol among right-wing fascists and new
threats from radicalized Islamists have created a crisis, confronting
Jews with an agonizing choice."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
El Castor
2018-05-11 07:17:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Sharia
finance seems harmless enough, but that is just a first step. Then we
move on to Sharia Courts -- initially sold as innocuous religious
institutions which aid in settling family disputes -- but remember
this is Islam -- not some romantic fantasy. Here is how it works in
Europe.
"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html
"One woman’s brush with Sharia courts in the UK: "It ruined my life
forever"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/rahila-gupta/one-woman-s-brush-with-sharia-courts-in-uk
"Sweden takes steps to establish Sharia Law, rules in favor of child
marriages"
http://www.thomasdishaw.com/sweden-takes-step-closer-establishing-sharia-law-rules-favor-child-marriages/
"When the 'Arab Street' Comes to Sweden
Anti-Jewish violence spreads to liberal Europe"
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-11/when-the-arab-street-comes-to-sweden
"British girls are being sold as child brides like I was, says women's
rights campaigner"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-girls-sold-child-brides-gabriella-gillespie-yemen-issy-womens-rights-campaigners-a7617621.html
"Germany: Chechen Sharia Police Terrorize Berlin"
"A hundred Islamists are now openly enforcing Sharia law on the
streets of Berlin, according to local police who are investigating a
recent string of violent assaults in the German capital."
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10632/germany-chechens
"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?
For half a century, memories of the Holocaust limited anti-Semitism on
the Continent. That period has ended—the recent fatal attacks in Paris
and Copenhagen are merely the latest examples of rising violence
against Jews. Renewed vitriol among right-wing fascists and new
threats from radicalized Islamists have created a crisis, confronting
Jews with an agonizing choice."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
Gary
2018-05-11 12:02:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:17:30 -0700, El Castor
/www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
It's not only that Islam culture is alien to Christianity -- it is
also alien to Western Civilization. They are the only people since
the stoneage who are -- intellectually -- cavemen.
El Castor
2018-05-11 20:10:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gary
On Fri, 11 May 2018 00:17:30 -0700, El Castor
/www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
It's not only that Islam culture is alien to Christianity -- it is
also alien to Western Civilization. They are the only people since
the stoneage who are -- intellectually -- cavemen.
I actually wasn't referring to Christianity -- I was referring to our
culture, constitution, attitude towards women, etc. Muslims MUST
believe that Mohmmad was the world's only perfect man, so everything
he did was correct, moral, and above reproach -- an example that never
can change, and the Quran is the literal precise and final word of God
-- never subject to change, unless God contradicts himself -- then the
later words take precedence. Islam was carefully crafted to be
impossible to change, is completely contrary to our culture, legal
system, and way of life, and ALWAYS will be.
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-11 15:18:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Gary
2018-05-11 16:46:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 08:18:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
When the stupid (blanks) on the Supreme Court get through -- the
Muslims will be declared our superiors. And that all churches must
now pray to Allah.
El Castor
2018-05-11 20:12:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 08:18:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-12 03:16:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gary
On Fri, 11 May 2018 08:18:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that means you do support discrimination against Muslims in more
than just immigration.
El Castor
2018-05-12 06:03:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:16:10 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Gary
On Fri, 11 May 2018 08:18:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by mg
On Tue, 08 May 2018 23:49:34 -0700, El Castor
{snip}
Post by mg
Post by El Castor
Islam begins to worm its way into the fabric of a society in subtle
ways. For instance, Muslims are fobidden to pay interest, so they
demand an "accomodation". Well, not going to happen here, or ...
"In the United States a quiet financial revolution is going on under
the radar of the public eye. It's the rise of Islamic financial
institutions — ranging from small community banks in the Midwest to
nationwide investment banks and brokerage firms."
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/under-the-radar-islamic-banks-rise-in-th.html
Well, at least we can be sure that we will never see any Shariah
courts on our soil, or ...
"Islamic courts are becoming common in North America. Muslims are
building religious communities in America, and religious courts are
part of the structure of many of these communities."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/30/sharia-in-america/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.80597f4a48f1
As I have (had to) present many times, religious accommodations are an
American tradition that apply equally to all religions.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/religiouslaw.pdf
Post by mg
Then there's the problem that eventually they could vote in lock step
and become a powerful, special-interest voting bloc, much like the
blacks already are.
Any group can choose to become a special-interest voting bloc. Jews,
whites, southern whites, coal miners, MAGA-hat wearers, you name it.
The theme in the above posts is we should discriminate against Muslims,
rather than treating them equally.
Oh? Perhaps there are lessons to be learned from Europe?
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that means you do support discrimination against Muslims in more
than just immigration.
Josh, I am beginning to get annoyed. Here is what I support:

1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-12 15:07:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:16:10 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that means you do support discrimination against Muslims in more
than just immigration.
1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
If you believe in #2, then it must be the case that you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts (all three must comply with our laws). And yet,
you said, "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Those are your words, not mine.

So, why did you say "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
El Castor
2018-05-12 19:10:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:09 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:16:10 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
In your opinion, the lesson is we need to discriminate against Muslims
now before things get bad. Right?
No, we need to admit the reality that Islamic cultural values will
never be compatible with our own, and severely restrict Islamic
immigration to minimize the inevitable and irremediable cultural
conflicts that will occur.
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that means you do support discrimination against Muslims in more
than just immigration.
1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
If you believe in #2, then it must be the case that you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts (all three must comply with our laws). And yet,
you said, "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Those are your words, not mine.
So, why did you say "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
Muslims are not Jews. Islam compels Muslims to subjugate the Infidel,
and eventually to impose a Universal Caliphate on the World. It is no
accident that Islam has taken over 50 countries, and Belgium is
frequently referred to as Belgistan. Jews, Sikhs, and Buddhists pose
no threat to the United States, our culture, and our constitution --
but Islam does. As our Muslim populations grows (if we let it), so
will the demands. Look at Europe, for God's sake!
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-12 23:28:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:09 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That means, in spite of your complaints about them, you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts. Right?
Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, that means you do support discrimination against Muslims in more
than just immigration.
1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
If you believe in #2, then it must be the case that you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts (all three must comply with our laws). And yet,
you said, "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Those are your words, not mine.
So, why did you say "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
Muslims are not Jews. Islam compels Muslims to subjugate the Infidel,
and eventually to impose a Universal Caliphate on the World. It is no
accident that Islam has taken over 50 countries, and Belgium is
frequently referred to as Belgistan. Jews, Sikhs, and Buddhists pose
no threat to the United States, our culture, and our constitution --
but Islam does. As our Muslim populations grows (if we let it), so
will the demands. Look at Europe, for God's sake!
You did not understand the thrust of my question, and I could have
presented it more clearly. Let's try this again.

On the one hand, you have stated that we should not discriminate against
Muslims except to limit Muslim immigration. In particular, we should
only require that all people in the USA must obey our laws.

On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should treat
Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an equal basis with
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as practiced in the USA), even
though such an equal treatment entails nothing more than all three of
them obeying our laws (something you said you support).

These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent. In particular,
the latter position looks very much like discrimination against Muslims
already in the USA. How do you explain holding these inconsistent
positions?
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-14 15:00:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
{snip}
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
If you believe in #2, then it must be the case that you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts (all three must comply with our laws).  And yet,
you said, "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"  Those are your words, not mine.
So, why did you say "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
Muslims are not Jews. Islam compels Muslims to subjugate the Infidel,
and eventually to impose a Universal Caliphate on the World. It is no
accident that Islam has taken over 50 countries, and Belgium is
frequently referred to as Belgistan. Jews, Sikhs, and Buddhists pose
no threat to the United States, our culture, and our constitution --
but Islam does. As our Muslim populations grows (if we let it), so
will the demands. Look at Europe, for God's sake!
You did not understand the thrust of my question, and I could have
presented it more clearly.  Let's try this again.
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not discriminate against
Muslims except to limit Muslim immigration.  In particular, we should
only require that all people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should treat
Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an equal basis with
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as practiced in the USA), even
though such an equal treatment entails nothing more than all three of
them obeying our laws (something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent.  In particular,
the latter position looks very much like discrimination against Muslims
already in the USA.  How do you explain holding these inconsistent
positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
El Castor
2018-05-14 18:34:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
1. As little Muslim immigration to the US as possible.
2. Those who do come here should obey our laws.
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now quit trying to put words in my mouth.
If you believe in #2, then it must be the case that you have no problem
treating Islamic law and courts on an equal basis as their Canon and
Talmudic counterparts (all three must comply with our laws).  And yet,
you said, "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"  Those are your words, not mine.
So, why did you say "Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?
Muslims are not Jews. Islam compels Muslims to subjugate the Infidel,
and eventually to impose a Universal Caliphate on the World. It is no
accident that Islam has taken over 50 countries, and Belgium is
frequently referred to as Belgistan. Jews, Sikhs, and Buddhists pose
no threat to the United States, our culture, and our constitution --
but Islam does. As our Muslim populations grows (if we let it), so
will the demands. Look at Europe, for God's sake!
You did not understand the thrust of my question, and I could have
presented it more clearly.  Let's try this again.
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not discriminate against
Muslims except to limit Muslim immigration.  In particular, we should
only require that all people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should treat
Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an equal basis with
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as practiced in the USA), even
though such an equal treatment entails nothing more than all three of
them obeying our laws (something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent.  In particular,
the latter position looks very much like discrimination against Muslims
already in the USA.  How do you explain holding these inconsistent
positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
Sorry, I missed your reply.

I am out of my depth on this one since I know nothing about
accomodations to Talmudic and Canon law. But, let's say that Sharia
courts are accepted in the United States and become commonplace --
could those courts compel Muslim women to wear veils? Order hands of
criminals to be amputated? Declare the death penalty for abandoniong
the Muslim religion? Order the call to prayer to be broadcast over
loud speakers in a fashion contrary to existing laws concerning the
use of loud speakers? Order the death penalty as punishment for the
commission of adultery? Declare the testimony of two women to be
equivalent to that of one man? Order non-muslims in a political
jurisdiction to pay a Dhimmi tax? Permit husbands to divorce wives by
repeating the words "I divorce thee" three times in front of a Sharia
judge? Permit marriage to females 9 years of age? Require the
testimony of 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman?

I could go on, but I am sure you expected this and have a well
rehearsed reply. (-8
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-14 20:03:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not discriminate against
Muslims except to limit Muslim immigration.  In particular, we should
only require that all people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should treat
Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an equal basis with
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as practiced in the USA), even
though such an equal treatment entails nothing more than all three of
them obeying our laws (something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent.  In particular,
the latter position looks very much like discrimination against Muslims
already in the USA.  How do you explain holding these inconsistent
positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
Sorry, I missed your reply.
I am out of my depth on this one since I know nothing about
accomodations to Talmudic and Canon law. But, let's say that Sharia
courts are accepted in the United States and become commonplace --
could those courts compel Muslim women to wear veils? Order hands of
criminals to be amputated? Declare the death penalty for abandoniong
the Muslim religion? Order the call to prayer to be broadcast over
loud speakers in a fashion contrary to existing laws concerning the
use of loud speakers? Order the death penalty as punishment for the
commission of adultery? Declare the testimony of two women to be
equivalent to that of one man? Order non-muslims in a political
jurisdiction to pay a Dhimmi tax? Permit husbands to divorce wives by
repeating the words "I divorce thee" three times in front of a Sharia
judge? Permit marriage to females 9 years of age? Require the
testimony of 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman?
The answer to all your questions is "no" because such courts, just like
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts, must obey secular law.

But plenty of things that Sharia courts could do, just like their Canon
and Talmudic counterparts, would comply with secular law. One such
example is a Sharia court applying Islamic law to conclude that sons
receive more in a will than daughters do (that's a perfectly legal
arrangement in any will and Orthodox Jews might do the same thing). In
those cases, are you OK with all three religious courts having the force
of law?
El Castor
2018-05-15 00:44:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 14 May 2018 13:03:58 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not discriminate against
Muslims except to limit Muslim immigration.  In particular, we should
only require that all people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should treat
Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an equal basis with
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as practiced in the USA), even
though such an equal treatment entails nothing more than all three of
them obeying our laws (something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent.  In particular,
the latter position looks very much like discrimination against Muslims
already in the USA.  How do you explain holding these inconsistent
positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
Sorry, I missed your reply.
I am out of my depth on this one since I know nothing about
accomodations to Talmudic and Canon law. But, let's say that Sharia
courts are accepted in the United States and become commonplace --
could those courts compel Muslim women to wear veils? Order hands of
criminals to be amputated? Declare the death penalty for abandoniong
the Muslim religion? Order the call to prayer to be broadcast over
loud speakers in a fashion contrary to existing laws concerning the
use of loud speakers? Order the death penalty as punishment for the
commission of adultery? Declare the testimony of two women to be
equivalent to that of one man? Order non-muslims in a political
jurisdiction to pay a Dhimmi tax? Permit husbands to divorce wives by
repeating the words "I divorce thee" three times in front of a Sharia
judge? Permit marriage to females 9 years of age? Require the
testimony of 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman?
The answer to all your questions is "no" because such courts, just like
their Canon and Talmudic counterparts, must obey secular law.
But plenty of things that Sharia courts could do, just like their Canon
and Talmudic counterparts, would comply with secular law. One such
example is a Sharia court applying Islamic law to conclude that sons
receive more in a will than daughters do (that's a perfectly legal
arrangement in any will and Orthodox Jews might do the same thing). In
those cases, are you OK with all three religious courts having the force
of law?
You are being very naieve. Muslims recognize only Allah's law, and
obey Infidel law, only if theyare forced to. Will there be a secular
judge observing Sharia court proceedings to insure that Sharia judges
toe the line? No, of course not. Sharia without oversight depends on
the victim going to the civil authorities. Few are willing to do that.
Sharia courts use social and family pressure to enforce their decrees,
legal and otherwise.

Here are how the principles you describe are working in the UK ...

"No one talks about the fact that in sharia courts, British Muslim
women have fewer rights than women in Islamic countries"
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sharia-law-uk-courts-muslim-women-rights-few-compared-islamic-countries-religious-rulings-quran-a8064796.html

"Inside Britain's Sharia courts: There are now EIGHTY-FIVE Islamic
courts dispensing 'justice' across the UK. This investigation into
what really goes on behind their doors will shock you to the core"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3358625/Inside-Britain-s-Sharia-courts-EIGHTY-FIVE-Islamic-courts-dispensing-justice-UK-special-investigation-really-goes-doors-shock-core.html

Sharia courts can also marry. Fine, you say ... but, in practice
Sharia marriages are seldom followed up with a civil confirmation.
When the divorce happens, civil law doesn't apply because there was no
marriage in the eyes of the law. And Sharia marriage poses another
problem. Mohammad, the world's only perfect man, married a 9 year old
girl -- and anything he did was just and lawful. Sharia child
marriages would not be reported to civil authorities. The UK has a
huge child marriage problem.

"Although it is most prevalent in the developing world, child marriage
also happens in the United Kingdom. The Home Office estimates that
between 5,000 and 8,000 people are at risk of being forced into
marriage every year in the UK. In 2016, the UK Forced Marriage Unit’s
helpline dealt with 1,428 cases of forced marriage; 15% involved
children aged 16 and under and 11% involved 16-17 year olds. "
https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/child-marriage/united-kingdom/

BTW, speaking of children, on another note, Mohammad defeated a Jewish
tribe that dared to challenge his authority. He ordered 600 adult
males decapitated, and the women and children enslaved. When the boys
reached puberty, they were also decapitated. How do Muslims know this?
His contemporaries studied his life and decision, so that his perfect
example could be emulated for eternity. Those studies are known as the
Hadiths.

We can't change Islam. For a Muslim to suggest such a thing is
punishable by death. Muslim immigration must therefore be severely
limited.
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-15 00:54:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 13:03:58 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not
discriminate against Muslims except to limit Muslim
immigration. In particular, we should only require that all
people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should
treat Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an
equal basis with their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as
practiced in the USA), even though such an equal treatment
entails nothing more than all three of them obeying our laws
(something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent. In
particular, the latter position looks very much like
discrimination against Muslims already in the USA. How do
you explain holding these inconsistent positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
Sorry, I missed your reply.
I am out of my depth on this one since I know nothing about
accomodations to Talmudic and Canon law. But, let's say that
Sharia courts are accepted in the United States and become
commonplace -- could those courts compel Muslim women to wear
veils? Order hands of criminals to be amputated? Declare the
death penalty for abandoniong the Muslim religion? Order the call
to prayer to be broadcast over loud speakers in a fashion
contrary to existing laws concerning the use of loud speakers?
Order the death penalty as punishment for the commission of
adultery? Declare the testimony of two women to be equivalent to
that of one man? Order non-muslims in a political jurisdiction to
pay a Dhimmi tax? Permit husbands to divorce wives by repeating
the words "I divorce thee" three times in front of a Sharia
judge? Permit marriage to females 9 years of age? Require the
testimony of 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman?
The answer to all your questions is "no" because such courts, just
like their Canon and Talmudic counterparts, must obey secular law.
But plenty of things that Sharia courts could do, just like their
Canon and Talmudic counterparts, would comply with secular law.
One such example is a Sharia court applying Islamic law to conclude
that sons receive more in a will than daughters do (that's a
perfectly legal arrangement in any will and Orthodox Jews might do
the same thing). In those cases, are you OK with all three
religious courts having the force of law?
You are being very naieve. Muslims recognize only Allah's law, and
obey Infidel law, only if theyare forced to. Will there be a secular
judge observing Sharia court proceedings to insure that Sharia
judges toe the line? No, of course not. Sharia without oversight
depends on the victim going to the civil authorities. Few are willing
to do that. Sharia courts use social and family pressure to enforce
their decrees, legal and otherwise.
So, is it your position that Sharia courts should not be treated on an
equal basis as their Canon and Talmudic counterparts because only Sharia
courts cannot be trusted to obey our laws?
El Castor
2018-05-15 06:36:56 UTC
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On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:54:18 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 13:03:58 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 08:00:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
On the one hand, you have stated that we should not
discriminate against Muslims except to limit Muslim
immigration. In particular, we should only require that all
people in the USA must obey our laws.
On the other hand, you have rejected the idea that we should
treat Islamic law and courts (as practiced in the USA) on an
equal basis with their Canon and Talmudic counterparts (as
practiced in the USA), even though such an equal treatment
entails nothing more than all three of them obeying our laws
(something you said you support).
These two positions strike me as logically inconsistent. In
particular, the latter position looks very much like
discrimination against Muslims already in the USA. How do
you explain holding these inconsistent positions?
No further comment, Jeff?
Sorry, I missed your reply.
I am out of my depth on this one since I know nothing about
accomodations to Talmudic and Canon law. But, let's say that
Sharia courts are accepted in the United States and become
commonplace -- could those courts compel Muslim women to wear
veils? Order hands of criminals to be amputated? Declare the
death penalty for abandoniong the Muslim religion? Order the call
to prayer to be broadcast over loud speakers in a fashion
contrary to existing laws concerning the use of loud speakers?
Order the death penalty as punishment for the commission of
adultery? Declare the testimony of two women to be equivalent to
that of one man? Order non-muslims in a political jurisdiction to
pay a Dhimmi tax? Permit husbands to divorce wives by repeating
the words "I divorce thee" three times in front of a Sharia
judge? Permit marriage to females 9 years of age? Require the
testimony of 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman?
The answer to all your questions is "no" because such courts, just
like their Canon and Talmudic counterparts, must obey secular law.
But plenty of things that Sharia courts could do, just like their
Canon and Talmudic counterparts, would comply with secular law.
One such example is a Sharia court applying Islamic law to conclude
that sons receive more in a will than daughters do (that's a
perfectly legal arrangement in any will and Orthodox Jews might do
the same thing). In those cases, are you OK with all three
religious courts having the force of law?
You are being very naieve. Muslims recognize only Allah's law, and
obey Infidel law, only if theyare forced to. Will there be a secular
judge observing Sharia court proceedings to insure that Sharia
judges toe the line? No, of course not. Sharia without oversight
depends on the victim going to the civil authorities. Few are willing
to do that. Sharia courts use social and family pressure to enforce
their decrees, legal and otherwise.
So, is it your position that Sharia courts should not be treated on an
equal basis as their Canon and Talmudic counterparts because only Sharia
courts cannot be trusted to obey our laws?
It is my position that a place to start is with very few Muslim
immigrants, which should result in few Sharia courts, or councils as
they prefer to be called.

Two years ago, in response to readily apparent problems with UK Sharia
councils, a government commission was established to perform an
"independent review into the application of sharia law in England and
Wales". The commission issued its findings in February of this year,
enumerating numerous problems ...

"The independent review into the application of sharia law in England
and Wales
Presented to Parliament
by the Secretary of State for the Home Department
by Command of Her Majesty
February 2018

"Evidence of bad practice:
Bad practice in the sharia councils may be down to individual bad
practice or underlying
problems in structure or both in some cases.
• inappropriate and unnecessary questioning in regards to personal
relationship matters
• a forced marriage victim was asked to attend the sharia council at
the same time as her family
• insistence on any form of mediation as a necessary preliminary
• women being invited to make concessions to their husbands in order
to secure a divorce (men are never asked to make these concessions).
For example in khula agreements, husbands may demand excessive
financial concessions from the wife
• lengthy process so that while divorces are very rarely refused they
can be drawn out
• inconsistency across council decisions and processes
• no safeguarding policies and/or the recognition for the need of
safeguarding policies
• no clear signposting to the legal options available for civil
divorce
• even with a decree absolute a religious divorce is not always a
straightforward process and the council will consider all the evidence
again
• adopting civil legal terms inappropriately, leading to confusion for
applicants over the legality of council decisions
• very few women as panel members
• panel members sitting on sharia councils who have only recently
moved to the UK, and who do not have the required language skills
and/or wider understanding of UK society
• varying and conflicting interpretations of Islamic law which may
lead to inconsistencies"
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/678473/6.4152_HO_CPFG_Report_into_Sharia_Law_in_the_UK_PRINT.pdf

I suggest you read the report in full for yourself. The commission
found that most cases before the councils involved women seeking a
divorce. In Islam, divorce on the part of the woman is a complicated
drawn out procedure. Husbands, on the other hand simply say "I divorce
you" three times and it is done.

The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.

I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me. But best to just leave
these problems to fester in the 50 countries already seized by Islam.
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-15 15:11:51 UTC
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Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:54:18 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
So, is it your position that Sharia courts should not be treated on an
equal basis as their Canon and Talmudic counterparts because only Sharia
courts cannot be trusted to obey our laws?
It is my position that a place to start is with very few Muslim
immigrants, which should result in few Sharia courts, or councils as
they prefer to be called.
That's an evasion.
Post by El Castor
Two years ago, in response to readily apparent problems with UK Sharia
councils, a government commission was established to perform an
"independent review into the application of sharia law in England and
Wales". The commission issued its findings in February of this year,
enumerating numerous problems ...
{snip}
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
El Castor
2018-05-15 16:56:37 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:11:51 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:54:18 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
So, is it your position that Sharia courts should not be treated on an
equal basis as their Canon and Talmudic counterparts because only Sharia
courts cannot be trusted to obey our laws?
It is my position that a place to start is with very few Muslim
immigrants, which should result in few Sharia courts, or councils as
they prefer to be called.
That's an evasion.
Post by El Castor
Two years ago, in response to readily apparent problems with UK Sharia
councils, a government commission was established to perform an
"independent review into the application of sharia law in England and
Wales". The commission issued its findings in February of this year,
enumerating numerous problems ...
{snip}
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
Personally I would treat anything that represents Islam with what it
deserves -- a great deal of suspicion, skepticism, and cynicism. Islam
is, always has, and always will be, a cancer on humanity. It is to be
feared and loathed by every decent human being on the planet, even
self hating Jews. Clear enough for you?
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-15 18:29:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:11:51 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
Personally I would treat anything that represents Islam with what it
deserves -- a great deal of suspicion, skepticism, and cynicism. Islam
is, always has, and always will be, a cancer on humanity. It is to be
feared and loathed by every decent human being on the planet, even
self hating Jews. Clear enough for you?
No. You have gone back and forth, sometimes evaded, and contradicted
yourself on the question of whether we should treat Sharia councils
differently than other religious councils.
El Castor
2018-05-16 01:02:39 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:11:51 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
Personally I would treat anything that represents Islam with what it
deserves -- a great deal of suspicion, skepticism, and cynicism. Islam
is, always has, and always will be, a cancer on humanity. It is to be
feared and loathed by every decent human being on the planet, even
self hating Jews. Clear enough for you?
No. You have gone back and forth, sometimes evaded, and contradicted
yourself on the question of whether we should treat Sharia councils
differently than other religious councils.
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious councils",
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious institution,
scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If these Talmudic and
Canon institutions do that, shame on them -- regulate 'em, but I doubt
they are all that evil. I am always open to proof. On the other hand,
I know what Muslims are capable of, and I cannot fathom your defense
of Islam.

These are the people you are defending. They would make a Nazi blush:

'Nationãl Duty to Råpe Girls Whõ Wear Revealing Clöthes'


'Wife Beating Etiquette'


'Mickey Mouse' Killed by 'Terrorist' Jew


Jews are "barbaric monkeys, wretched pigs," says girl on Palestinian
TV


Etc.
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-16 01:13:57 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:11:51 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
Personally I would treat anything that represents Islam with what it
deserves -- a great deal of suspicion, skepticism, and cynicism. Islam
is, always has, and always will be, a cancer on humanity. It is to be
feared and loathed by every decent human being on the planet, even
self hating Jews. Clear enough for you?
No. You have gone back and forth, sometimes evaded, and contradicted
yourself on the question of whether we should treat Sharia councils
differently than other religious councils.
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious councils",
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious institution,
scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If these Talmudic and
Canon institutions do that, shame on them -- regulate 'em, but I doubt
they are all that evil. I am always open to proof.
You are still not answering the question. Should these councils all be
held to the same standard of not violating civil law?
b***@gmail.com
2018-05-16 02:52:01 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by El Castor
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious councils",
Post by El Castor
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious institution,
scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If these Talmudic and
Canon institutions do that, shame on them -- regulate 'em, but I doubt
they are all that evil. I am always open to proof.
You are still not answering the question. Should these councils all be
held to the same standard of not violating civil law?
So, what is the appeal process if a Muslim doesn't agree with a Sharia court decision? Do they hire an attorney to take it a US court? Can the Sharia court decision be overturned by a non-religious court?
Josh Rosenbluth
2018-05-16 03:02:10 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by El Castor
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious
councils",
Post by El Castor
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious
institution, scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If
these Talmudic and Canon institutions do that, shame on them --
regulate 'em, but I doubt they are all that evil. I am always
open to proof.
You are still not answering the question. Should these councils
all be held to the same standard of not violating civil law?
So, what is the appeal process if a Muslim doesn't agree with a
Sharia court decision? Do they hire an attorney to take it a US
court? Can the Sharia court decision be overturned by a non-religious
court?
You can sue in a government court if you believe the Sharia council has
violated civil law.
El Castor
2018-05-16 03:34:30 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by El Castor
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious councils",
Post by El Castor
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious institution,
scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If these Talmudic and
Canon institutions do that, shame on them -- regulate 'em, but I doubt
they are all that evil. I am always open to proof.
You are still not answering the question. Should these councils all be
held to the same standard of not violating civil law?
So, what is the appeal process if a Muslim doesn't agree with a Sharia court decision? Do they hire an attorney to take it a US court? Can the Sharia court decision be overturned by a non-religious court?
There would most likely be no appeal because the woman (generally the
plaintiff is a woman suing for divorce) would be intimidated by the
Imam rendering the judgment, as well as her husband, male members of
her family, and the Muslim community in which she lives. If an
immigrant, she most likely would be ignorant of the laws that might
apply to her case, and if her marriage was entirely a religious one,
the usual civil laws might not even apply. Of course, as a country or
locale sinks further into Islam, Sharia courts could be expected to
adjudicate matters beyond marriage -- as they do in Muslim countries
where they can go as far as capital punishment. Given the choice,
Muslim's will always choose Allah's law over Infidel laws and
constitutions.

El Castor
2018-05-16 03:07:42 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 15 May 2018 18:13:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 11:29:54 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:11:51 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
The commission recommended legislation, regulation of the councils,
and a requirement that civil marriage accompany Sharia marriage -- the
purpose being to insure that both partners, particularly the women,
receive the benefit of the laws of the UK.
I believe something similar should be carefully considered here.
Include Talmudic and Canon law courts, and any other quasi legal
religious legal system, too -- fine with me.
And now it sounds like you are willing to treat all religious councils
equally. Right?
Personally I would treat anything that represents Islam with what it
deserves -- a great deal of suspicion, skepticism, and cynicism. Islam
is, always has, and always will be, a cancer on humanity. It is to be
feared and loathed by every decent human being on the planet, even
self hating Jews. Clear enough for you?
No. You have gone back and forth, sometimes evaded, and contradicted
yourself on the question of whether we should treat Sharia councils
differently than other religious councils.
Until you came along I didn't know there were "religious councils",
other than Sharia. Of course I can't support a religious institution,
scheme, or "council" used to evade civil laws. If these Talmudic and
Canon institutions do that, shame on them -- regulate 'em, but I doubt
they are all that evil. I am always open to proof.
You are still not answering the question. Should these councils all be
held to the same standard of not violating civil law?
I thought I made myself clear -- YES!!!
Gary
2018-05-08 11:57:09 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:51 -0700, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
According to the great historian Tacitus (c.56 – c.120 AD)-- the Jews
might have been negroes. Here (below) is what he said:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Many, again, say that they (Jews) were a race of Ethiopian origin, who
in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their
neighbours to seek a new dwelling-place.....

....Most writers, however, agree in stating that once a disease, which
horribly disfigured the body, broke out over Egypt; that king
Bocchoris, seeking a remedy, consulted the oracle of Hammon, and was
bidden to cleanse his realm, and to convey into some foreign land this
race (jews) detested by the gods.

http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/histories.5.v.html
b***@gmail.com
2018-05-08 14:42:41 UTC
Reply
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Post by El Castor
Post by mg
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers". I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
Jews can't be compared to Muslims. Jews are an ethnicity in addition
to being a religion -- which many don't actively practice. Jews don't
proselitize, or aspire to covert humanity to Judaism. Very big
difference.
Not entirely an ethnicity since anyone can become a Jew.

"If I decide I want to become a Jew, how would I go about it?

First, make an appointment with a rabbi. The rabbi will not only discuss the process and implications of becoming a Jew, but he or she will also explore with you your reasons for wanting to do so. In earlier generations, rabbis would discourage potential Jews-by-choice, turning them away three times to test how serious they were. This custom is seldom followed today, but most rabbis will take time to discuss your choice and his or her expectations of you.

People considering conversion to Judaism are expected to study Jewish theology, rituals, history, culture, and customs, and to begin incorporating Jewish practice into their lives. Though the scope of the course of study will vary from rabbi to rabbi and community to community, most require a course in basic Judaism and individual study with a rabbi, as well as attendance at services and participation in home practice and synagogue life.

Keep in mind that you are free to choose the rabbi with whom you will work. Talk to more than one rabbi and find someone with whom you feel comfortable. This rabbi will then become your sponsoring rabbi, guiding you through every step of your conversion."

https://reformjudaism.org/choosing-judaism-0
Gary
2018-05-08 11:28:15 UTC
Reply
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Post by mg
Post by Gary
Post by mg
Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
The modern-day Mormon church does some astounding mental backbends to
appear to be, and to actually be, mainstream and non-radical and
non-controversial. So actually it isn't surprising to me at all to see
them go with the flow so to speak on the issue of gay people. How
about Jews, though? I don't really know about Jews, but I think they
tend to be quite "liberal", anyway.
Depends on where the Jews are at. Here in the US, they are very
liberal. They love to see social changes -- that weaken the ruling
white class. In Israel -- they become very conservative and do not
encourage -- or allow -- much meddling with tradition :-)
They loved integration as long as it did not include their Bar mitzvah
and temple. Of course, they knew black people did not want to be
Jews. They wanted to be ...Baptists !
Post by mg
I think the Catholics probably adjust to public opinion over time,
also, but require a much longer time frame. Where the Mormons might
respond to public opinion in just a few years, or just a few decades,
for example, I think the Catholics would most likely take a century,
or more to adjust their dogma.
Catholics will do what their Pope tells them to do. After all -- he
knows what heaven wants. He has breakfast with Jesus every morning.
Post by mg
In regard to Muslims, I have a hard time imagining that they will ever
change -- not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
It is strange how a large group of people -- can still look at the
world as their ancestors did fourteen hundred years ago.
I don't think that either the Jews or the Muslims would change their
dogma to get more "customers".
I think therein lies the main difference between Christian leaders and
Jews/muslims. When a Christian leader looks out at a crowd -- he sees
money. A Jew/muslim leader sees --- power !
Post by mg
I think most other religions would, and
often do, gradually, over time, though.
I don't know much about the muslims, but I agree the Jews do not want
any converts. How would it be possible to accept outsiders ? After
all -- they are "gods chosen people". If you're not Jew -- you are
not !
Post by mg
However, I doubt if there's any religion in the world that's more
sensitive to criticism and more motivated to be seen as a main-stream,
all-American, non-radical religion as Mormonism.
I liked them back when they were unmoved by criticism. Like when
Smith and Young were their leaders.
The Real GLOBALIST
2018-05-06 12:18:39 UTC
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Post by Gary
Will it soon be down there with Catholics, Muslims and Jews ? And ...
atheists ?
-----------------------------------------------------
Mormon support for gay marriage gradually grows
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormon Alex Landers supports the legalization of
She has LGBTQ friends who she loves and respects, including her best
friend who is a bisexual man.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-support-gay-marriage-gradually-grows-192425526.html
Were the Mormons ever up hill? No, they are weird and follow a weirder
"religion". Did you know they believe that Jesus was reborn in Mexico?
Tzatz Zikki
2018-05-11 15:56:33 UTC
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Were
"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."
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