Discussion:
People who don't want to help the refugees
(too old to reply)
w***@gmail.com
2018-07-07 15:45:28 UTC
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Loading Image...
me
2018-07-07 16:26:21 UTC
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What have you done to help refugees or the poor?
GLOBALIST
2018-07-07 16:35:09 UTC
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Post by me
What have you done to help refugees or the poor?
The suggestion is....that every person, who is protesting
our immigration system should all take in one refugee.
That way there would be no problem
Heirloom
2018-07-07 16:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by GLOBALIST
Post by me
What have you done to help refugees or the poor?
The suggestion is....that every person, who is protesting
our immigration system should all take in one refugee.
That way there would be no problem
The problem was created by the USA's war on drugs fiasco so the USA is
responsible, your brainwashed traitor.
islander
2018-07-07 19:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.

This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
me
2018-07-07 21:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
islander
2018-07-09 14:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-09 14:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".

It sounds like the USA has just given up.
islander
2018-07-09 20:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".
It sounds like the USA has just given up.
They pay taxes and are valued members of the community. Like you, they
don't pursue citizenship. They are just living as best they can in a
community that values their participation and agonizes over the
difficulties that they face simply because they are undocumented.

A short example. There is a man who worked at a local saw mill for over
20 years. He paid taxes, participated in the community, but had entered
the country illegally a long time ago. As far as I know, he was a good
family man and had committed no crimes. Still, in a sweep of ferry
passengers he was seized by ICE and imprisoned. He was missed and a
number of islanders took it upon themselves to find out what had
happened. It took a lot of effort and expense to find him in ICE
detention and even more effort ant expense to provide him with legal
assistance. Meanwhile, his family languished on public assistance
without his income. He was eventually deported. How was this the right
thing to do?
me
2018-07-09 23:16:02 UTC
Permalink
When laws are applied unequally, arbitrarily or capriciously other people begin to question the purpose and fairness of laws. This leads to disrespect for laws, disregarding laws and even anarchy. How is that the right thing to do? This is why laws need to limited in number and not limited in application or prosecution. Just as you have ideas of good and evil so do others have theirs.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-09 23:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".
It sounds like the USA has just given up.
They pay taxes and are valued members of the community. Like you, they
don't pursue citizenship.
They also didn't enter legally, unless I'm misunderstanding.

I went to a fish and chip shop today at Fisherman's Wharf,
because my son said it was good. He was right, it is, but
what really surprised me was when the order taker, who
had a strong English accent, asked where I was from. I
said Yorkshire, and added that I was surprised she could
detect that I wasn't American. She asked how long I'd
been in the USA so I had to do a little math: 73-6=67 years.

My son says that I sound completely American now,
so this will show HIM!
Post by islander
They are just living as best they can in a
community that values their participation and agonizes over the
difficulties that they face simply because they are undocumented.
A short example. There is a man who worked at a local saw mill for over
20 years. He paid taxes, participated in the community, but had entered
the country illegally a long time ago. As far as I know, he was a good
family man and had committed no crimes. Still, in a sweep of ferry
passengers he was seized by ICE and imprisoned. He was missed and a
number of islanders took it upon themselves to find out what had
happened. It took a lot of effort and expense to find him in ICE
detention and even more effort ant expense to provide him with legal
assistance. Meanwhile, his family languished on public assistance
without his income. He was eventually deported. How was this the right
thing to do?
islander
2018-07-10 00:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".
It sounds like the USA has just given up.
They pay taxes and are valued members of the community. Like you, they
don't pursue citizenship.
They also didn't enter legally, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Some entered illegally by crossing the border without going through a
checkpoint. That is a misdemeanor. Most undocumented immigrants simply
arrived here on a visa or other legal visit permit and stayed (2013
figures). About 60% of undocumented immigrants have been here for over
10 years. Of the 11 million undocumented immigrants, only 2.7% have been
convicted of a felony compared to 8.6% of the US adult population. We
are more than 3X at risk from American citizens than we are from
undocumented immigrants.
(statistics are primarily from
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html)
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I went to a fish and chip shop today at Fisherman's Wharf,
because my son said it was good. He was right, it is, but
what really surprised me was when the order taker, who
had a strong English accent, asked where I was from. I
said Yorkshire, and added that I was surprised she could
detect that I wasn't American. She asked how long I'd
been in the USA so I had to do a little math: 73-6=67 years.
My son says that I sound completely American now,
so this will show HIM!
I think that you are more American than you realize. At least you
complain about the USA as much as most Americans! It is who we are.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
They are just living as best they can in a
community that values their participation and agonizes over the
difficulties that they face simply because they are undocumented.
A short example. There is a man who worked at a local saw mill for over
20 years. He paid taxes, participated in the community, but had entered
the country illegally a long time ago. As far as I know, he was a good
family man and had committed no crimes. Still, in a sweep of ferry
passengers he was seized by ICE and imprisoned. He was missed and a
number of islanders took it upon themselves to find out what had
happened. It took a lot of effort and expense to find him in ICE
detention and even more effort ant expense to provide him with legal
assistance. Meanwhile, his family languished on public assistance
without his income. He was eventually deported. How was this the right
thing to do?
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-10 02:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".
It sounds like the USA has just given up.
They pay taxes and are valued members of the community. Like you, they
don't pursue citizenship.
They also didn't enter legally, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Some entered illegally by crossing the border without going through a
checkpoint. That is a misdemeanor.
A misdemeanor is not a legality. I've mentioned that I
crossed into Mexico a couple of times without going
through a checkpoint, but I didn't stay there and get a
job there. If I had, that would have been more than
a misdemeanor, I would think, but I don't know what
the law is.
Post by islander
Most undocumented immigrants simply
arrived here on a visa or other legal visit permit and stayed (2013
figures). About 60% of undocumented immigrants have been here for over
10 years. Of the 11 million undocumented immigrants, only 2.7% have been
convicted f a felony compared to 8.6% of the US adult population. We
are more than 3X at risk from American citizens than we are from
undocumented immigrants.
(statistics are primarily from
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html)
If so, I am surprised that a person walking in to the
USA and getting a job is taken so lightly. I wonder
why we attempt to have border control at all, if so.
It would be just a joke.
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I went to a fish and chip shop today at Fisherman's Wharf,
because my son said it was good. He was right, it is, but
what really surprised me was when the order taker, who
had a strong English accent, asked where I was from. I
said Yorkshire, and added that I was surprised she could
detect that I wasn't American. She asked how long I'd
been in the USA so I had to do a little math: 73-6=67 years.
My son says that I sound completely American now,
so this will show HIM!
I think that you are more American than you realize. At least you
complain about the USA as much as most Americans! It is who we are.
Complaining about the government is the national pastime
of almost all countries where one is not in danger of arrest
(or worse!) for doing so. As I mentioned recently, I thought
for the first time about becoming a US citizen this July 7.
I haven't given it further thought since, but the thought is
still there. The fact that the English lady at the Fish and
Chips shop at Fisherman's Wharf today immediately knew
that I was English is a counter-incentive, though.

Rather than the Union Jack (Britain), they were flying
Saint George's Cross (England) at that fish and chips shop.
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
They are just living as best they can in a
community that values their participation and agonizes over the
difficulties that they face simply because they are undocumented.
A short example. There is a man who worked at a local saw mill for over
20 years. He paid taxes, participated in the community, but had entered
the country illegally a long time ago. As far as I know, he was a good
family man and had committed no crimes. Still, in a sweep of ferry
passengers he was seized by ICE and imprisoned. He was missed and a
number of islanders took it upon themselves to find out what had
happened. It took a lot of effort and expense to find him in ICE
detention and even more effort ant expense to provide him with legal
assistance. Meanwhile, his family languished on public assistance
without his income. He was eventually deported. How was this the right
thing to do?
islander
2018-07-10 14:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by me
Just curious, Islander. What % of the folks on your island are immigrants, especially illegal ones?
Don't know and don't care. We only get upset when ICE messes with
people who have lived here for decades but happen to not have
documentation. A popular bumper sticker here is "We don't give a damn
how you do it on the mainland!" The stories I could tell...
Why do they "happen" not have documentation?
Is it because they just walked in one day? Do they
pay taxes? One needs an SS# to pay taxes, or a
"Tax Identification Number" (TIN), but one needs
to fill out a social security form to get a "TIN".
It sounds like the USA has just given up.
They pay taxes and are valued members of the community. Like you, they
don't pursue citizenship.
They also didn't enter legally, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Some entered illegally by crossing the border without going through a
checkpoint. That is a misdemeanor.
A misdemeanor is not a legality. I've mentioned that I
crossed into Mexico a couple of times without going
through a checkpoint, but I didn't stay there and get a
job there. If I had, that would have been more than
a misdemeanor, I would think, but I don't know what
the law is.
We have divided crimes into two parts, misdemeanors and felonies for a
good reason and penalties for each are set to reflect the severity of
the crime. Misdemeanors generally involve minor punishments such as
short jail time at most, but usually a fine, probation, community
service, or restitution. Felonies are much more serious, often
involving physical harm or threat of harm to victims. They also include
white collar crimes and financial fraud schemes. Punishment is
correspondingly more severe.

As far as I know, there is no penalty for remaining in the country
unless the immigrant commits a felony. ICE is supposed to use this
threshold as justification for arresting an immigrant and deporting
them, but that threshold seems to be ignored by this administration.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Most undocumented immigrants simply
arrived here on a visa or other legal visit permit and stayed (2013
figures). About 60% of undocumented immigrants have been here for over
10 years. Of the 11 million undocumented immigrants, only 2.7% have been
convicted f a felony compared to 8.6% of the US adult population. We
are more than 3X at risk from American citizens than we are from
undocumented immigrants.
(statistics are primarily from
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html)
If so, I am surprised that a person walking in to the
USA and getting a job is taken so lightly. I wonder
why we attempt to have border control at all, if so.
It would be just a joke.
There are more important reasons to have border control, especially to
prevent commission of felonies such as drug trafficking, human
trafficking, and other crimes that actually harm our citizens. I'm not
convinced that people coming here to work harm anyone.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
I went to a fish and chip shop today at Fisherman's Wharf,
because my son said it was good. He was right, it is, but
what really surprised me was when the order taker, who
had a strong English accent, asked where I was from. I
said Yorkshire, and added that I was surprised she could
detect that I wasn't American. She asked how long I'd
been in the USA so I had to do a little math: 73-6=67 years.
My son says that I sound completely American now,
so this will show HIM!
I think that you are more American than you realize. At least you
complain about the USA as much as most Americans! It is who we are.
Complaining about the government is the national pastime
of almost all countries where one is not in danger of arrest
(or worse!) for doing so.
Our freedom of speech is a necessary weakness in a democratic society
that can be and is exploited by those who wish to sow discord. We can
only emphasize improving awareness that this is a problem and encourage
our citizenry to think critically for themselves rather than to blindly
believe those who are motivated to divide us.
Post by rumpelstiltskin
As I mentioned recently, I thought
for the first time about becoming a US citizen this July 7.
I haven't given it further thought since, but the thought is
still there. The fact that the English lady at the Fish and
Chips shop at Fisherman's Wharf today immediately knew
that I was English is a counter-incentive, though.
Rather than the Union Jack (Britain), they were flying
Saint George's Cross (England) at that fish and chips shop.
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by islander
They are just living as best they can in a
community that values their participation and agonizes over the
difficulties that they face simply because they are undocumented.
A short example. There is a man who worked at a local saw mill for over
20 years. He paid taxes, participated in the community, but had entered
the country illegally a long time ago. As far as I know, he was a good
family man and had committed no crimes. Still, in a sweep of ferry
passengers he was seized by ICE and imprisoned. He was missed and a
number of islanders took it upon themselves to find out what had
happened. It took a lot of effort and expense to find him in ICE
detention and even more effort ant expense to provide him with legal
assistance. Meanwhile, his family languished on public assistance
without his income. He was eventually deported. How was this the right
thing to do?
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-10 16:31:56 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by islander
As far as I know, there is no penalty for remaining in the country
unless the immigrant commits a felony. ICE is supposed to use this
threshold as justification for arresting an immigrant and deporting
them, but that threshold seems to be ignored by this administration.
Really! And here I was thinking that one had to get the
consent of the USA before moving into the country and
getting a job, or marrying someone here who was already
here legally. That was the case, I believe, in 1951 when
my mom moved in and married the man who was to
become my foster-father, dragging me along in tow.
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Complaining about the government is the national pastime
of almost all countries where one is not in danger of arrest
(or worse!) for doing so.
Our freedom of speech is a necessary weakness in a democratic society
that can be and is exploited by those who wish to sow discord. We can
only emphasize improving awareness that this is a problem and encourage
our citizenry to think critically for themselves rather than to blindly
believe those who are motivated to divide us.
I wasn't complaining about people complaining about the
government. I think people should do that, and there should
be no penalty for it as long as it falls short of sedition.

I guess I helped to sow discord when I participated in
anti-Vietnam-war rallies in the 1970's, and then again in
"Occupy Wall Street" rallies against the Middle-East-wars
and "sanctions" in more recent years. I perhaps could have
been deported for those, at least in theory.

b***@gmail.com
2018-07-09 03:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
islander
2018-07-09 04:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
mg
2018-07-09 19:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
According to Wikipedia, Utah has a higher percent of Hispanics and
Latinos than many liberal states, like Washington and Oregon, for
example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Hispanic_and_Latino_population

There are other things that are important besides a good economy. One
problem with California, for instance, is that it has been ranked as
having the lowest quality of life in the country.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/01/california-ranks-last-quality-life-new-report/384853002/
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8056905-181/report-california-ranks-dead-last
islander
2018-07-09 20:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by mg
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
According to Wikipedia, Utah has a higher percent of Hispanics and
Latinos than many liberal states, like Washington and Oregon, for
example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Hispanic_and_Latino_population
There are other things that are important besides a good economy. One
problem with California, for instance, is that it has been ranked as
having the lowest quality of life in the country.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/01/california-ranks-last-quality-life-new-report/384853002/
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8056905-181/report-california-ranks-dead-last
You can find exceptions, but I am looking at overall trends. The
reality is that liberal states do better including measures of quality
of life. https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959/
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-09 23:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by mg
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
According to Wikipedia, Utah has a higher percent of Hispanics and
Latinos than many liberal states, like Washington and Oregon, for
example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Hispanic_and_Latino_population
There are other things that are important besides a good economy. One
problem with California, for instance, is that it has been ranked as
having the lowest quality of life in the country.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/01/california-ranks-last-quality-life-new-report/384853002/
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8056905-181/report-california-ranks-dead-last
As I said to Gary, that's a good reason no more people
from other states should come here. I'd make an
exception for you though, if you wanted to.
b***@gmail.com
2018-07-09 20:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/

The California cities that are fighting sanctuary law:

San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
islander
2018-07-09 20:53:58 UTC
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Post by islander
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Post by w***@gmail.com
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
b***@gmail.com
2018-07-09 23:20:41 UTC
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Post by islander
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Post by islander
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.

Economy in Orange County, California:

Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.

Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.

Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.

Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
islander
2018-07-10 00:19:56 UTC
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Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.
Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.
Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.
Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
So, what's the problem? Orange county is conservative, but they don't
seem to have a problem with immigrants taking jobs away from anyone. As
far as the cost that immigrants impose on where they live, the reality
is that they typically pay their way in taxes on their income.
b***@gmail.com
2018-07-10 03:13:15 UTC
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.
Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.
Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.
Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
So, what's the problem? Orange county is conservative, but they don't
seem to have a problem with immigrants taking jobs away from anyone. As
far as the cost that immigrants impose on where they live, the reality
is that they typically pay their way in taxes on their income.
I doubt you can show me even one illegal alien who ever paid a dime in income tax. Why would they even file a tax return if they didn't have a refund coming?

https://canadafreepress.com/article/itin-the-massive-tax-loophole-allowing-illegal-aliens-to-defraud-american-c

According to the National Immigration Law Center, the most recent information (August 2012) indicated that there had been 21 million ITINs assigned to taxpayers and their dependents by the IRS.
ITINs assigned to illegal alien dependents from Mexico do NOT have to prove that they have ever set foot in the U.S., let alone that they are in the U.S. at the time of application.
Over 9 years and up to 2010, the IRS paid over $14.2 billion of American tax dollars in refunds to illegal aliens, for alleged dependents from whom no identification or residency documents were obtained, and from whom they received $0 in tax revenue.
islander
2018-07-10 14:02:05 UTC
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.
Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.
Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.
Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
So, what's the problem? Orange county is conservative, but they don't
seem to have a problem with immigrants taking jobs away from anyone. As
far as the cost that immigrants impose on where they live, the reality
is that they typically pay their way in taxes on their income.
I doubt you can show me even one illegal alien who ever paid a dime in income tax. Why would they even file a tax return if they didn't have a refund coming?
https://canadafreepress.com/article/itin-the-massive-tax-loophole-allowing-illegal-aliens-to-defraud-american-c
According to the National Immigration Law Center, the most recent information (August 2012) indicated that there had been 21 million ITINs assigned to taxpayers and their dependents by the IRS.
ITINs assigned to illegal alien dependents from Mexico do NOT have to prove that they have ever set foot in the U.S., let alone that they are in the U.S. at the time of application.
Over 9 years and up to 2010, the IRS paid over $14.2 billion of American tax dollars in refunds to illegal aliens, for alleged dependents from whom no identification or residency documents were obtained, and from whom they received $0 in tax revenue.
Well now are we talking about regional or federal issues? The
objections to sanctuary cities in Orange County is a regional issue and
it sounds like it may be based on the fear of the relatively wealthy
residents of that community that some of their residents are gaming the
system, getting benefits beyond what they deserve. That is not an issue
that is unique to immigrants. There are always people who will game the
system and that is not only those who are on welfare.

If you would like to address the issue of gaming the system by
immigrants at the federal level, we can discuss that too. The reality
is that there have been numerous studies done to evaluate the financial
impact of immigrants. One of the more interesting studies looked at GDP
vs immigration policy examining three alternatives: full deportation of
Mexican immigrants, full legalization and full legalization with
increased border control. They found that full deportation reduces GDP
while the other two alternatives improve GDP. Full legalization without
border control increases GDP by over 3x full legalization with increased
border control.
http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/49302/2/Aguiar_AAEA.pdf

Specific to abuse of ITINs, there has to be some mechanism for
immigrants to work legally and pay taxes. On balance, do immigrants pay
more into the system than they extract? Yes. A study by the National
Bureau of Economic Research shows that the average adult immigrant pays
$21,000 more in taxes than they receive in benefits and the younger the
migrant comes to the US, the better off the government will be.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w23498

This doesn't even include the immigrants who use fake SS numbers to work
in the US. These essentially accrue benefits to the actual owner of the
SS number and provide no benefits to the immigrant. There are other
problems with this practice and the IRS seems to not have a way of
preventing it.

The bottom line is that ITIN is needed and we should focus on preventing
fraudulent use rather than use the existence of that fraud as an excuse
to argue against immigration.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-10 02:54:16 UTC
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.
Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.
Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.
Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
Maybe I just don't keep up with household structures
in the USA, but I don't see how the median household
income can be more than twice the median resident
income. Do a lot of kids stay home after growing up
and getting a job these days? If so, that's a lot
different from my youth when kids wanted to get a
place of their own as soon as they could. If the
situation is so different now, I guess that's a sad
symptom of how expensive housing is now, and how
inadequate wages are, in cost-of-living terms.
islander
2018-07-10 05:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
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https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36730235_2536383863039243_3461345394028445696_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b6b694fdabc997ddb43e55b12cd6edd&oe=5BA73C60
In fact, the states with the fewest immigrants, legal or otherwise, seem
to be the ones most opposed to any form of immigration. For the record,
these are conservative states. Correlation coefficient = -0.40.
This is nothing more than political exploitation of xenophobic fear.
So why doesn't that make sense? Immigrants don't go where they are not wanted. They go to liberal states that have sanctuary cities like California.
So, if immigrants go to the liberal states and the liberal states have
the most vibrant economies, what is the problem?
I'm not sure, but apparently there are several cities around here who are fighting sanctuary laws for some reason. Maybe it's just too expensive.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/23/map-how-these-california-cities-are-pushing-back-on-the-states-sanctuary-city-stand/
San Diego County Board of Supervisors
Beaumont — Riverside County
Dana Point — Orange County
Ripon — San Joaquin County
Los Alamitos — Orange County
Laguna Niguel — Orange County
San Juan Capistrano — Orange County
Aliso Viejo — Orange County
Mission Viejo — Orange County
Yorba Linda — Orange County
Newport Beach — Orange County
Westminster — Orange County
Huntington Beach — Orange County
Orange — Orange, County
Fountain Valley — Orange County
Escondido –San Diego County
Check where they are located.
Most are in Orange County and we pay a lot of taxes.
Orange County has an unemployment rate of 4.4%. The US average is 5.2%.
Orange County has seen the job market increase by 2.3% over the last year. Future job growth over the next ten years is predicted to be 40.1%, which is higher than the US average of 38.0%.
Tax Rates for Orange County
- The Sales Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 6.0%.
- The Income Tax Rate for Orange County is 8.0%. The US average is 4.6%.
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
Maybe I just don't keep up with household structures
in the USA, but I don't see how the median household
income can be more than twice the median resident
income. Do a lot of kids stay home after growing up
and getting a job these days? If so, that's a lot
different from my youth when kids wanted to get a
place of their own as soon as they could. If the
situation is so different now, I guess that's a sad
symptom of how expensive housing is now, and how
inadequate wages are, in cost-of-living terms.
The figures that Bill cited were for *average* resident income and
*median* household income.
rumpelstiltskin
2018-07-10 13:29:10 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by islander
Post by rumpelstiltskin
Post by b***@gmail.com
Income and Salaries for Orange County
- The average income of a Orange County resident is $34,416 a year. The US average is $28,555 a year.
- The Median household income of a Orange County resident is $75,998 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
Maybe I just don't keep up with household structures
in the USA, but I don't see how the median household
income can be more than twice the median resident
income. Do a lot of kids stay home after growing up
and getting a job these days? If so, that's a lot
different from my youth when kids wanted to get a
place of their own as soon as they could. If the
situation is so different now, I guess that's a sad
symptom of how expensive housing is now, and how
inadequate wages are, in cost-of-living terms.
The figures that Bill cited were for *average* resident income and
*median* household income.
Ah, so it was. My mistake.
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