Discussion:
How Biden May Be Concealing Source of Wealth
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El Castor
2020-11-11 09:11:57 UTC
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Permalink
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/

Hmmm.
islander
2020-11-11 19:23:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
El Castor
2020-11-11 20:21:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
islander
2020-11-14 17:09:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC. There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income. S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
El Castor
2020-11-14 18:32:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC. There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income. S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
islander
2020-11-15 00:35:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes. As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC. There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income. S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal. The same rules
apply as for personal income. It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income. The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation. Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return. Nothing is hidden. Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income. Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
islander
2020-11-15 00:39:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax. Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
El Castor
2020-11-15 06:31:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax. Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
islander
2020-11-15 18:36:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax. Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence. That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns. You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds. So, where is the beef?

Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
islander
2020-11-15 19:02:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
El Castor
2020-11-15 19:55:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.

"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F

"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/

"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
islander
2020-11-16 16:01:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
El Castor
2020-11-16 19:57:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
islander
2020-11-16 23:02:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
El Castor
2020-11-17 08:14:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
islander
2020-11-17 16:23:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.

So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.

What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.

Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
El Castor
2020-11-17 19:40:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
islander
2020-11-17 23:40:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
El Castor
2020-11-18 08:52:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
islander
2020-11-18 14:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
El Castor
2020-11-18 19:14:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.

But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
islander
2020-11-19 14:48:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
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Post by islander
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Post by islander
Post by El Castor
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Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
El Castor
2020-11-20 05:34:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
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Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
islander
2020-11-20 19:37:37 UTC
Reply
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Post by El Castor
Post by islander
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Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
El Castor
2020-11-20 20:49:54 UTC
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"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
The world is not perfect , and sometimes alternatives are worse than
the problem they seek to solve. I might be in an automobile accident
and kill myself or someone else, so we have speed laws, traffic
regulations, and incorporate safety features in cars. The ultimate
solution would be to eliminate cars, but that doesn't seem practical.
So propose a solution, or live with what we have.
islander
2020-11-21 00:35:21 UTC
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Post by islander
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Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
The world is not perfect , and sometimes alternatives are worse than
the problem they seek to solve. I might be in an automobile accident
and kill myself or someone else, so we have speed laws, traffic
regulations, and incorporate safety features in cars. The ultimate
solution would be to eliminate cars, but that doesn't seem practical.
So propose a solution, or live with what we have.
Are you proposing that a corporation that fears losing assets due to an
unfavorable legal judgement and removes assets from that corporation to
protect the wealth of the owners (including shareholders) should be
legally subject to claw back of those assets plus legal expenses in
payment to the winner of the law suit? If so, I'm surprised.

Or, are you arguing that it should be illegal to remove assets of a
corporation to deny an award and that the owners and officers of that
corporation should be charged with a felony?
El Castor
2020-11-21 07:44:22 UTC
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Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
The world is not perfect , and sometimes alternatives are worse than
the problem they seek to solve. I might be in an automobile accident
and kill myself or someone else, so we have speed laws, traffic
regulations, and incorporate safety features in cars. The ultimate
solution would be to eliminate cars, but that doesn't seem practical.
So propose a solution, or live with what we have.
Are you proposing that a corporation that fears losing assets due to an
unfavorable legal judgement and removes assets from that corporation to
protect the wealth of the owners (including shareholders) should be
legally subject to claw back of those assets plus legal expenses in
payment to the winner of the law suit? If so, I'm surprised.
Or, are you arguing that it should be illegal to remove assets of a
corporation to deny an award and that the owners and officers of that
corporation should be charged with a felony?
This is a problem of which I was not aware. Apparently it has been
dealt with in a 2016 court decision, but no doubt not to your
satisfaction.

"No, You Can't Avoid Judgment by Just Transferring Assets"
https://www.jonathancooperlaw.com/blog/no-you-can-t-avoid-judgment-by-just-transferring-assets-.cfm

You consider yourself to be a Democratic Socialist, do you not? So,
Democratic Socialist, Yes or No? Yes or No --- Why?
islander
2020-11-21 17:28:53 UTC
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Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
The world is not perfect , and sometimes alternatives are worse than
the problem they seek to solve. I might be in an automobile accident
and kill myself or someone else, so we have speed laws, traffic
regulations, and incorporate safety features in cars. The ultimate
solution would be to eliminate cars, but that doesn't seem practical.
So propose a solution, or live with what we have.
Are you proposing that a corporation that fears losing assets due to an
unfavorable legal judgement and removes assets from that corporation to
protect the wealth of the owners (including shareholders) should be
legally subject to claw back of those assets plus legal expenses in
payment to the winner of the law suit? If so, I'm surprised.
Or, are you arguing that it should be illegal to remove assets of a
corporation to deny an award and that the owners and officers of that
corporation should be charged with a felony?
This is a problem of which I was not aware. Apparently it has been
dealt with in a 2016 court decision, but no doubt not to your
satisfaction.
"No, You Can't Avoid Judgment by Just Transferring Assets"
https://www.jonathancooperlaw.com/blog/no-you-can-t-avoid-judgment-by-just-transferring-assets-.cfm
So you are arguing in favor of my first presumption, that assets removed
from a corporation to avoid can be clawed back?
Post by El Castor
You consider yourself to be a Democratic Socialist, do you not? So,
Democratic Socialist, Yes or No? Yes or No --- Why?
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"

To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.

To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.

Where is your evidence to the contrary?
El Castor
2020-11-21 20:52:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
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Post by El Castor
"Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, have used Delaware’s financial
privacy
laws to shield his income from public view." ...
"The Bidens have used their home state’s financial privacy laws to
shield his income from public view, by setting up two tax- and
transparency-avoidance vehicles known as S corporations. He and
his
wife Jill Biden called them CelticCapri Corp. and Giacoppa Corp.,
respectively, and, according to the Wall Street Journal, have
reported
more than $13 million in profits the previous two years that
weren’t
subject to specific disclosure or self-employment taxes.  As
CNBC has
described, money Biden made from book deals and speeches flowed
into
the S corporations and was then remitted to Biden and his wife as
“distributions” rather than salary. When money is funneled
through an
S corporation, the recipient doesn’t owe Social Security or
Medicare
taxes on it, nor can the source of revenue be traced."
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/11/joe-biden-financial-disclosure/
Hmmm.
You don't understand the purpose of S Corporations or their federal
reporting requirements.
Oh I think I do. Realizing that it was never going to be an
industrial
power Delaware set out to become the banking/finance corporate tax
haven of the United States. Delaware is the Luxembourg of the US.
Forming an S corporation in Delaware is reportedly about as
difficult
as getting a library card. Usury laws don't exist and the tax and
secrecy advantages of an S corporation are endless. It is no
accident
that Joe and his wife both have their own personal S corporations in
Delaware.
I think that you are confusing the advantages of an S Corp with
those of
an LLC.  There are tax advantages of both, but LLCs are the most
often
abused to hide income.  S Corps are generally used in situations
where
it is desirable to avoid double taxation.
The S Corp which Biden and his wife both use, has no record or
reporting requirement as to the origin of the funds deposited in the
account. If the Biden's desire to conceal the source of the funds in
the account, it is a more than adequate vehicle.
That may be true for Delaware, but not for federal.  The same rules
apply as for personal income.  It is just accounted for separately.
There is no income tax paid on income and no FICA tax, but profit is
passed through to be taxed on personal income.  The primary
advantage of
an S Corp is that income is not taxed in the corporation, but is passed
to personal income, hence no double taxation.  Sources of income are
available in personal income tax return.  Nothing is hidden.  Wish I
could say the same for Trump who uses a lot of LLCs to hide his sources
of income.  Think we will ever get a glimpse of those financial
entanglements?
I just looked it up and Delaware (actually just Wilmington) exempts S
Corps from paying the city's 1.25% net profit tax.  Perhaps that is what
you heard about.
Let's me be clear. I do not care about the taxability of S Corp funds,
nor do I object to Biden minimizing his tax burden through any lawful
means. More power to him. My concern is the reported participation of
Biden Senior in his son's business dealings in several foreign
countries, chief among them China. I believe Trumps efforts to halt
the migration of US manufacturing to China was commendable, but if
Biden has been receiving payments under the table from China, and
perhaps other foreign sources, I would be very concerned that he will
be black mailed. I realize that this is of no concern to you, but you
are naive if you believe your heming and hawing will convince me
otherwise.
No hemming and hawing, I'm just asking for evidence.  That evidence
would be apparent in Biden's tax returns.  You claim that his S Corp
conceals possible income from China and I say that is not possible.
Biden has revealed all his tax refunds.  So, where is the beef?
Personally, I think you are trafficking in conspiracy theories.
Correction: Biden has revealed all his tax *returns.*
Delaware S Corp deposits originating from out of state sources are not
taxed or reported to any taxing agency -- thus nothing on a tax
return.
"Generally speaking, S-Corporations do not pay tax. If they were
previously a C-Corp it’s possible they could run into some built-in
gains, but those are somewhat unusual. A true S-Corp shouldn’t pay any
tax, but sometimes they do need to make a tax deposit. No tax
liability, but a tax deposit required? Yes it’s as strange as it
sounds."
https://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/s-corp-tax-deposits/#:~:text=Generally%20speaking%2C%20S-Corporations%20do%20not%20pay%20tax.%20If,No%20tax%20liability%2C%20but%20a%20tax%20deposit%20required%3F
"When thinking of tax havens, one generally pictures notorious
zero-tax Caribbean islands like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.
However, we can also find a tax haven a lot closer to home in the
state of Delaware – a choice location for U.S. business formation. A
loophole in Delaware’s tax code is responsible for the loss of
billions of dollars in revenue in other U.S. states, and its lack of
incorporation transparency makes it a magnet for people looking to
create anonymous shell companies, which individuals and corporations
can use to evade an inestimable amount in federal and foreign taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service estimated a total tax gap of about $450
billion with $376 billion of it due to filers underreporting income in
2006 (the most recent tax year for which this data is available).[i]
While it is impossible to know how much underreported income is hidden
in Delaware shell companies, the First State’s ability to attract the
formation of anonymous companies suggests that it could rival the
amount of income hidden in more well-known offshore tax havens."
https://itep.org/delaware-an-onshore-tax-haven/
"“Delaware and other havens in the U.S. do not have beneficial
ownership information,”"
"“Beneficial ownership” sounds complicated but is actually very
simple: It tells you who is the real owner. When you buy a house, your
name is on the deed. Buy Apple stock, and you own a small piece of
this multinational technology company.
But an anonymous shell corporation allows its owners to trick the
system. By definition, a shell corporation is really a ghost. It
doesn’t have any significant assets or operations of its own. It
doesn’t make anything or collect money for having made it.
It’s generally used as a “pass through” to allow another company or
business to smoothly move financial assets from one place to another,
such as from a foreign country to the U.S."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-shell-companies-launder-dirty-money/
Once again, you do not understand the purpose of S Corporations. They
do not pay taxes because their purpose is to move profits to the
individuals who own them, thereby eliminating double taxation. Nothing
nefarious here. Any income is visible in the individual's personal tax
return.
I understand the use that S Corps can be put to -- concealment of
income and foreign money transfers. Sorry if you lack the will or
intellect to share that understanding. If, as I suspect, Joe Biden has
participated in his son's China money games then we can expect a
presidential push to eliminate tariffs on Chinese goods and return to
the days of dependence on Chinese manufacturing. If and when that day
comes will you admit the error of your ways, or simply find a way to
excuse his actions? Sadly, I anticipate the latter.
Sorry, no there there.
There -- the NY Times ...
Big corporations, small-time businesses, rogues, scoundrels and worse
— all have turned up at Delaware addresses in hopes of minimizing
taxes, skirting regulations, plying friendly courts or, when needed,
covering their tracks. Federal authorities worry that, in addition to
the legitimate businesses flocking here, drug traffickers, embezzlers
and money launderers are increasingly heading to Delaware, too. It’s
easy to set up shell companies here, no questions asked.
“Shells are the No. 1 vehicle for laundering illicit money and
criminal proceeds,” said Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general
for the criminal division of the Justice Department. “It’s an enormous
criminal justice problem. It’s ridiculously easy for a criminal to set
up a shell corporation and use the banking system, and we have to stop
it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/business/how-delaware-thrives-as-a-corporate-tax-haven.html
Sigh! The article says nothing about S Corporations which is how you
started this thread.
So, what are you saying here? Delaware has made an effort to make it
easy to form corporations - all kinds of corporations. In addition,
their tax laws (and the federal tax laws) allow the people forming these
corporations to avoid paying state taxes in those states that impose
higher taxes on corporations, even if the place of business is outside
Delaware. Personally, I am opposed to any effort to make it easier for
corporations to avoid taxes where their business is located. I would
have thought that you would be in favor of tax laws that allowed
corporations to avoid taxation. There are other things that I don't
like about the economic policies of Delaware, especially as pertains to
insurance companies.
What is it that you are now complaining about S Corporations? I think
that is pretty transparent.
Of course I'm complaining about S Corporations -- specifically Biden's
(or should I say the "big guy's") likely use, or misuse, of them.
As I said, pretty transparent. Are you also complaining about Trump's
use of LLCs to hide money? Or are you a hypocrite?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Are you ready to consider solving problems related to corporations?
Of course, but what problems? I doubt you and I would be in universal
agreement concerning the nature of those problems as well as the
solution.
Really? All corporations provide a legal shield to the individuals who
own the corporation. Yes, you can sue the corporation, but lots of luck
in hurting the individuals who harmed you. That is not quite true all
the time, evidence the suits against the owners of the companies that
profited from opioids. But, it takes enormous effort to break the
shield. And even then, it is easy to remove all assets so that even a
winning suit finds empty coffers. Does that sound right to you?
So, you are suggesting that if a corporation is sued for a billion and
declares bankruptcy, the shareholders should be required to pony up?
The owner of stock worth nothing might be forced to pay a million to
the originator of the lawsuit? Right?
In for a penny, in for a pound. Why should the shareholders not be held
responsible for the actions of a corporation that they support with
their investment? I thought that conservatives believed in personal
responsibility! I suppose you support the practice of removing assets
from a corporation in order to minimize loss from a suit that penalizes
that corporation for damage?
First, let me say that Biden has two S Corps, not LLCs, and no they
are not the same thing.
But that aside, moving on to your proposal of corporations which open
up shareholders to unlimited liability (ULC) -- we would fid ourselves
in a world in which shareholders risk much more than their entire
investment, they risk everything they own -- such an animal does
exist, but it consists of small businesses, as in sole
proprietorships. Anything larger is extremely rare and is a result of
very unusual circumstances. Why rare? Shareholders in ULCs risk
everything. This might be acceptable in the case of a small business
or restaurant in which the owner can carefully measure the extent of
his liability, but for a large corporation like a Tesla or Boeing, in
the event of a multi billion bankruptcy shareholders would risk the
loss of far more than their original investment, all their assets,
potentially even their homes. Would you take such a risk? I wouldn't,
and very few would.
Of course! That is the primary justification for corporations and that
is why I raise the issue. So, I'll repeat my question. Do you support
the practice of removing assets from a corporation in order to minimize
loss from a suit that penalizes that corporation for damage?
Ultimate uninsured corporate liability results in bankruptcy, the loss
of everything, a fate which corporations definitely wish to avoid.
What is your solution? Socialism, which you no doubt believe makes the
endlessly deep pockets of the government liable for infinite damage?
I don't have a solution, but when corporations can move assets to avoid
awarding damages when they are at fault is simply wrong, IMV. Socialism
is not a solution for that and is irrelevant to this discussion.
The world is not perfect , and sometimes alternatives are worse than
the problem they seek to solve. I might be in an automobile accident
and kill myself or someone else, so we have speed laws, traffic
regulations, and incorporate safety features in cars. The ultimate
solution would be to eliminate cars, but that doesn't seem practical.
So propose a solution, or live with what we have.
Are you proposing that a corporation that fears losing assets due to an
unfavorable legal judgement and removes assets from that corporation to
protect the wealth of the owners (including shareholders) should be
legally subject to claw back of those assets plus legal expenses in
payment to the winner of the law suit? If so, I'm surprised.
Or, are you arguing that it should be illegal to remove assets of a
corporation to deny an award and that the owners and officers of that
corporation should be charged with a felony?
This is a problem of which I was not aware. Apparently it has been
dealt with in a 2016 court decision, but no doubt not to your
satisfaction.
"No, You Can't Avoid Judgment by Just Transferring Assets"
https://www.jonathancooperlaw.com/blog/no-you-can-t-avoid-judgment-by-just-transferring-assets-.cfm
So you are arguing in favor of my first presumption, that assets removed
from a corporation to avoid can be clawed back?
I think the court was right. Transferring assets to avoid paying a
judgment is wrong. Make it illegal, but extracting it from innocent
publicly traded shareholders would be a big mistake.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
You consider yourself to be a Democratic Socialist, do you not? So,
Democratic Socialist, Yes or No? Yes or No --- Why?
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"
Of course I understand. Here it is, spelled out in detail ...
https://www.dsausa.org/
You might want to consider joining. A former participant in this group
was a member, as are many members of your party.
Post by islander
To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.
To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.
Where is your evidence to the contrary?
I am not a libertarian, so I am sure I would agree with some of what
you believe. However, taxing corporations into moving their
manufacturing and assets overseas, letting China eat our lunch, open
borders, and Medicare for all. They don't sound too good to me.
islander
2020-11-22 01:22:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by islander
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"
Of course I understand. Here it is, spelled out in detail ...
https://www.dsausa.org/
You might want to consider joining. A former participant in this group
was a member, as are many members of your party.
Post by islander
To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.
To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.
Where is your evidence to the contrary?
I am not a libertarian, so I am sure I would agree with some of what
you believe. However, taxing corporations into moving their
manufacturing and assets overseas, letting China eat our lunch, open
borders, and Medicare for all. They don't sound too good to me.
OK, there is little evidence that corporation taxation is the primary
reason that they moved their manufacturing overseas. Low labor cost and
permissive environmental regulations are much more likely. Personally,
I'm opposed to corporations moving their manufacturing overseas, but we
disagree on the reasons. I'm opposed because it produces unfair
competition with domestic companies that play by the rules. The bottom
line is that it is a race to the bottom. Tax law and tariffs don't
solve the problem and our experience with the Trump tax cuts only
produced a bump in the stock market and allowed companies to buy back
equity. Very little evidence of a benefit to American workers or consumers.

Otherwise, Democrats (including Democratic Socialists) are not in favor
of open borders. What makes you think that they are? The following
from your citation may clarify that for you.
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/toward-a-left-position-on-immigration/

Finally, neither Biden or I support Medicare for All. Medicare has its
own problems that need to be corrected. Biden and I support a single
payer system public option. Personally, I would love to see insurance
companies have to compete with a well run government program.
El Castor
2020-11-22 08:32:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by islander
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"
Of course I understand. Here it is, spelled out in detail ...
https://www.dsausa.org/
You might want to consider joining. A former participant in this group
was a member, as are many members of your party.
Post by islander
To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.
To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.
Where is your evidence to the contrary?
I am not a libertarian, so I am sure I would agree with some of what
you believe. However, taxing corporations into moving their
manufacturing and assets overseas, letting China eat our lunch, open
borders, and Medicare for all. They don't sound too good to me.
OK, there is little evidence that corporation taxation is the primary
reason that they moved their manufacturing overseas. Low labor cost and
permissive environmental regulations are much more likely.
Actually I wouldn't argue that point with you. However, low labor cost
is becoming less of an issue as automation takes over.
Post by islander
Personally,
I'm opposed to corporations moving their manufacturing overseas, but we
disagree on the reasons. I'm opposed because it produces unfair
competition with domestic companies that play by the rules. The bottom
line is that it is a race to the bottom. Tax law and tariffs don't
solve the problem and our experience with the Trump tax cuts only
produced a bump in the stock market and allowed companies to buy back
equity. Very little evidence of a benefit to American workers or consumers.
Bottom line, AI and robot workers are gradually replacing human labor.
If we allow manufacturing to migrate to Asia, what will become of the
US? Will we be transformed into China's farm? We must retain a strong
manufacturing base. As I heard someone say, there is no such thing as
a tax on corporations. Ultimately that tax is paid by the consumer --
and in the case of export industries heavy taxation leaves us
non-competitive. Our corporate income taxes are arguably still too
high. There is a good argument that a tax on upper end personal
income makes more sense. In 2021 Sweden's corporate tax rate will be
20.6% -- less than our 21%, and far less when you add in our state
corporate taxes -- California's is 8.84%, bringing our State/Federal
to a total of 29.84%.
Post by islander
Otherwise, Democrats (including Democratic Socialists) are not in favor
of open borders. What makes you think that they are? The following
from your citation may clarify that for you.
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/toward-a-left-position-on-immigration/
Bottom line, Democrats have been weak at best in controlling the
border. Conservatives believe that liberals have welcomed vast
increases in the US underclass knowing that eventually that underclass
would bolster their voting base. I'll be convinced that is wrong if
Biden continues Trump's efforts to control the border, but I'm not
holding my breath.
Post by islander
Finally, neither Biden or I support Medicare for All. Medicare has its
own problems that need to be corrected. Biden and I support a single
payer system public option. Personally, I would love to see insurance
companies have to compete with a well run government program.
So would I, but as it stands we can't even get the VA right.
islander
2020-11-22 16:05:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by islander
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"
Of course I understand. Here it is, spelled out in detail ...
https://www.dsausa.org/
You might want to consider joining. A former participant in this group
was a member, as are many members of your party.
Post by islander
To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.
To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.
Where is your evidence to the contrary?
I am not a libertarian, so I am sure I would agree with some of what
you believe. However, taxing corporations into moving their
manufacturing and assets overseas, letting China eat our lunch, open
borders, and Medicare for all. They don't sound too good to me.
OK, there is little evidence that corporation taxation is the primary
reason that they moved their manufacturing overseas. Low labor cost and
permissive environmental regulations are much more likely.
Actually I wouldn't argue that point with you. However, low labor cost
is becoming less of an issue as automation takes over.
Post by islander
Personally,
I'm opposed to corporations moving their manufacturing overseas, but we
disagree on the reasons. I'm opposed because it produces unfair
competition with domestic companies that play by the rules. The bottom
line is that it is a race to the bottom. Tax law and tariffs don't
solve the problem and our experience with the Trump tax cuts only
produced a bump in the stock market and allowed companies to buy back
equity. Very little evidence of a benefit to American workers or consumers.
Bottom line, AI and robot workers are gradually replacing human labor.
If we allow manufacturing to migrate to Asia, what will become of the
US? Will we be transformed into China's farm? We must retain a strong
manufacturing base. As I heard someone say, there is no such thing as
a tax on corporations. Ultimately that tax is paid by the consumer --
and in the case of export industries heavy taxation leaves us
non-competitive. Our corporate income taxes are arguably still too
high. There is a good argument that a tax on upper end personal
income makes more sense. In 2021 Sweden's corporate tax rate will be
20.6% -- less than our 21%, and far less when you add in our state
corporate taxes -- California's is 8.84%, bringing our State/Federal
to a total of 29.84%.
Yet many corporations pay little or no income tax. What did the
reduction in tax rate do to change that? Makes for a nice bumper
sticker, but does little to solve the underlying problems in our tax
system. Better, I think, to level the playing field across our
businesses. Perhaps a graduated *income* tax on corporations similar to
what we have on individuals.
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Otherwise, Democrats (including Democratic Socialists) are not in favor
of open borders. What makes you think that they are? The following
from your citation may clarify that for you.
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/toward-a-left-position-on-immigration/
Bottom line, Democrats have been weak at best in controlling the
border. Conservatives believe that liberals have welcomed vast
increases in the US underclass knowing that eventually that underclass
would bolster their voting base. I'll be convinced that is wrong if
Biden continues Trump's efforts to control the border, but I'm not
holding my breath.
I expect Biden to stress controlling the border in a manner similar to
Obama's efforts. No claims of building a 30 foot wall all along the
southern border and no claims that Mexico will pay for it. No
separating children from their parents. Honoring our international
agreements to respect the rights of asylum seekers.
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Finally, neither Biden or I support Medicare for All. Medicare has its
own problems that need to be corrected. Biden and I support a single
payer system public option. Personally, I would love to see insurance
companies have to compete with a well run government program.
So would I, but as it stands we can't even get the VA right.
The VA is not a single payer insurance system. It is more like the
British NHS. Still, most vets would not give up the VA health care,
just as most Brits would not give up the NHS.
El Castor
2020-11-22 19:05:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by islander
First of all, I do not consider myself to be a Democratic Socialist
although I have no problem with people who are. Do you understand what
a Democratic Socialist believes, or are you automatically opposed to any
political belief that includes the word "socialist?"
Of course I understand. Here it is, spelled out in detail ...
https://www.dsausa.org/
You might want to consider joining. A former participant in this group
was a member, as are many members of your party.
Post by islander
To be clear, I did not support Sanders who I considered to be an
populist opportunist with little real evidence to support his policies.
Still, I would have voted for him as the lesser of two evils in any
comparison with Trump.
To be even more clear, I advocate the policies that support government
run services where they are clearly demonstrated to perform better for
the general public and I have written extensively about that, citing ten
examples of services provided by the state governments where liberal
states performed better than conservative states during the recovery
from the Great Recession.
Where is your evidence to the contrary?
I am not a libertarian, so I am sure I would agree with some of what
you believe. However, taxing corporations into moving their
manufacturing and assets overseas, letting China eat our lunch, open
borders, and Medicare for all. They don't sound too good to me.
OK, there is little evidence that corporation taxation is the primary
reason that they moved their manufacturing overseas. Low labor cost and
permissive environmental regulations are much more likely.
Actually I wouldn't argue that point with you. However, low labor cost
is becoming less of an issue as automation takes over.
Post by islander
Personally,
I'm opposed to corporations moving their manufacturing overseas, but we
disagree on the reasons. I'm opposed because it produces unfair
competition with domestic companies that play by the rules. The bottom
line is that it is a race to the bottom. Tax law and tariffs don't
solve the problem and our experience with the Trump tax cuts only
produced a bump in the stock market and allowed companies to buy back
equity. Very little evidence of a benefit to American workers or consumers.
Bottom line, AI and robot workers are gradually replacing human labor.
If we allow manufacturing to migrate to Asia, what will become of the
US? Will we be transformed into China's farm? We must retain a strong
manufacturing base. As I heard someone say, there is no such thing as
a tax on corporations. Ultimately that tax is paid by the consumer --
and in the case of export industries heavy taxation leaves us
non-competitive. Our corporate income taxes are arguably still too
high. There is a good argument that a tax on upper end personal
income makes more sense. In 2021 Sweden's corporate tax rate will be
20.6% -- less than our 21%, and far less when you add in our state
corporate taxes -- California's is 8.84%, bringing our State/Federal
to a total of 29.84%.
Yet many corporations pay little or no income tax. What did the
reduction in tax rate do to change that? Makes for a nice bumper
sticker, but does little to solve the underlying problems in our tax
system. Better, I think, to level the playing field across our
businesses. Perhaps a graduated *income* tax on corporations similar to
what we have on individuals.
Many corporations understandably took advantage of lower tax rates
overseas, earned there, and never brought their money home where it
would have been taxed at US rates. If energy producers have a tax
gimmick that is unfair, eliminate it, but don't use one loophole as an
excuse to raise taxes on everyone.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Otherwise, Democrats (including Democratic Socialists) are not in favor
of open borders. What makes you think that they are? The following
from your citation may clarify that for you.
https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/toward-a-left-position-on-immigration/
Bottom line, Democrats have been weak at best in controlling the
border. Conservatives believe that liberals have welcomed vast
increases in the US underclass knowing that eventually that underclass
would bolster their voting base. I'll be convinced that is wrong if
Biden continues Trump's efforts to control the border, but I'm not
holding my breath.
I expect Biden to stress controlling the border in a manner similar to
Obama's efforts. No claims of building a 30 foot wall all along the
southern border and no claims that Mexico will pay for it. No
separating children from their parents. Honoring our international
agreements to respect the rights of asylum seekers.
Oh? Obama's deportation "success" was in large part nothing more than
an exercise in semantics. I would expect nothing better under Biden.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Finally, neither Biden or I support Medicare for All. Medicare has its
own problems that need to be corrected. Biden and I support a single
payer system public option. Personally, I would love to see insurance
companies have to compete with a well run government program.
So would I, but as it stands we can't even get the VA right.
The VA is not a single payer insurance system. It is more like the
British NHS. Still, most vets would not give up the VA health care,
just as most Brits would not give up the NHS.
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
islander
2020-11-22 23:02:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
El Castor
2020-11-23 06:22:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
islander
2020-11-23 17:07:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
El Castor
2020-11-23 21:45:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
By some standards France ranks #1. The UK's National Health Service,
unable to handle the load, was at one time sending people there for
surgery.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

France, BTW, has loser pays attorney fees -- the so called English
rule, an important factor in controlling healthcare costs. France, one
lawyer per 1,400. US, one lawyer per 265. US lawyers have the cash to
buy politicians.

ABA Journal ...
"Trial Lawyers Donate Millions of Dollars to Democratic Candidates"
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/trial_lawyers_donate_millions_of_dollars_to_democratic_candidates/

BTW -- Just looked it up, the Taiwan legal system also employs loser
pays. (-8
islander
2020-11-24 00:43:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
By some standards France ranks #1. The UK's National Health Service,
unable to handle the load, was at one time sending people there for
surgery.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
France, BTW, has loser pays attorney fees -- the so called English
rule, an important factor in controlling healthcare costs. France, one
lawyer per 1,400. US, one lawyer per 265. US lawyers have the cash to
buy politicians.
ABA Journal ...
"Trial Lawyers Donate Millions of Dollars to Democratic Candidates"
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/trial_lawyers_donate_millions_of_dollars_to_democratic_candidates/
BTW -- Just looked it up, the Taiwan legal system also employs loser
pays. (-8
As I said, we could learn from what works in other countries and adopt
it for ourselves.

As for France, liability is not as simple as you think. In March 2002
France implemented unified medical malpractice rules. Victims have the
right to initiate prosecution in criminal court and there is real teeth
in the rules that can result in imprisonment and fines. But, the victim
may also choose to claim violation of the Code of Ethics and impose
disciplinary action. As to who pays, Europe pretty much uses the
English rule for everything, unlike the US. If you want to apply that
to medical care abuse, you should be arguing that we adopt it for
everything.
https://malpracticecenter.com/states/france/
El Castor
2020-11-24 06:27:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
By some standards France ranks #1. The UK's National Health Service,
unable to handle the load, was at one time sending people there for
surgery.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
France, BTW, has loser pays attorney fees -- the so called English
rule, an important factor in controlling healthcare costs. France, one
lawyer per 1,400. US, one lawyer per 265. US lawyers have the cash to
buy politicians.
ABA Journal ...
"Trial Lawyers Donate Millions of Dollars to Democratic Candidates"
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/trial_lawyers_donate_millions_of_dollars_to_democratic_candidates/
BTW -- Just looked it up, the Taiwan legal system also employs loser
pays. (-8
As I said, we could learn from what works in other countries and adopt
it for ourselves.
As for France, liability is not as simple as you think. In March 2002
France implemented unified medical malpractice rules. Victims have the
right to initiate prosecution in criminal court and there is real teeth
in the rules that can result in imprisonment and fines. But, the victim
may also choose to claim violation of the Code of Ethics and impose
disciplinary action. As to who pays, Europe pretty much uses the
English rule for everything, unlike the US. If you want to apply that
to medical care abuse, you should be arguing that we adopt it for
everything.
https://malpracticecenter.com/states/france/
I am arguing that we adopt the English Rule for everything, period,
and have argued that for years.
islander
2020-11-24 16:12:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
By some standards France ranks #1. The UK's National Health Service,
unable to handle the load, was at one time sending people there for
surgery.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
France, BTW, has loser pays attorney fees -- the so called English
rule, an important factor in controlling healthcare costs. France, one
lawyer per 1,400. US, one lawyer per 265. US lawyers have the cash to
buy politicians.
ABA Journal ...
"Trial Lawyers Donate Millions of Dollars to Democratic Candidates"
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/trial_lawyers_donate_millions_of_dollars_to_democratic_candidates/
BTW -- Just looked it up, the Taiwan legal system also employs loser
pays. (-8
As I said, we could learn from what works in other countries and adopt
it for ourselves.
As for France, liability is not as simple as you think. In March 2002
France implemented unified medical malpractice rules. Victims have the
right to initiate prosecution in criminal court and there is real teeth
in the rules that can result in imprisonment and fines. But, the victim
may also choose to claim violation of the Code of Ethics and impose
disciplinary action. As to who pays, Europe pretty much uses the
English rule for everything, unlike the US. If you want to apply that
to medical care abuse, you should be arguing that we adopt it for
everything.
https://malpracticecenter.com/states/france/
I am arguing that we adopt the English Rule for everything, period,
and have argued that for years.
Of course you have! France evidently recognized the disadvantage that
an individual has against powerful organizations and chose to address
the bias in the English Rule by implementing the 2002 Code of Medical
Ethics. It seems to be helping, but litigation in health care also
seems to be increasing.
El Castor
2020-11-24 20:02:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
I accept that some sort of government run healthcare system is in the
cards. Can you give us an example of a system you believe we should
emulate?
Asked and answered many times. My favorite system is the one
implemented in Taiwan, but just about any single payer system
implemented in industrialized countries would be better than what we
presently have.
Oh yes, Taiwan -- small compact population sharing a common language,
culture, and value system. Here's another one for you to check out --
Finland! Population the size of NYC and the largest minority group is
Swedish.
What I especially like about Taiwan is how they went about implementing
their system. They carefully examined universal health care systems
around the world and selected those aspects that most closely matched
their needs. They had no preconceived ideas about what was great about
their existing system and proceeded with an open mind in defining their
new system. Then, once implemented, they evaluated how it was working
and made corrections to make it better. We could take a lesson.
By some standards France ranks #1. The UK's National Health Service,
unable to handle the load, was at one time sending people there for
surgery.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
France, BTW, has loser pays attorney fees -- the so called English
rule, an important factor in controlling healthcare costs. France, one
lawyer per 1,400. US, one lawyer per 265. US lawyers have the cash to
buy politicians.
ABA Journal ...
"Trial Lawyers Donate Millions of Dollars to Democratic Candidates"
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/trial_lawyers_donate_millions_of_dollars_to_democratic_candidates/
BTW -- Just looked it up, the Taiwan legal system also employs loser
pays. (-8
As I said, we could learn from what works in other countries and adopt
it for ourselves.
As for France, liability is not as simple as you think. In March 2002
France implemented unified medical malpractice rules. Victims have the
right to initiate prosecution in criminal court and there is real teeth
in the rules that can result in imprisonment and fines. But, the victim
may also choose to claim violation of the Code of Ethics and impose
disciplinary action. As to who pays, Europe pretty much uses the
English rule for everything, unlike the US. If you want to apply that
to medical care abuse, you should be arguing that we adopt it for
everything.
https://malpracticecenter.com/states/france/
I am arguing that we adopt the English Rule for everything, period,
and have argued that for years.
Of course you have! France evidently recognized the disadvantage that
an individual has against powerful organizations and chose to address
the bias in the English Rule by implementing the 2002 Code of Medical
Ethics. It seems to be helping, but litigation in health care also
seems to be increasing.
Hmmm. One lawyer per 1,400 versus one per 265. The difference --
before suing in France (for any reason), think twice or three times to
be sure you have a valid case. Seems more than reasonable to me. Our
politicians have been bought and paid for to insure that we never ever
adopt the English rule.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?cycle=2020&ind=K01
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