Discussion:
We are Witnessing the Global Collapse of Socialism
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me
2018-09-10 18:48:00 UTC
Permalink
https://www.financialsense.com/fs-staff/martin-armstrong-we-are-witnessing-global-collapse-socialism
Weatherman
2018-09-10 19:08:48 UTC
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Post by me
https://www.financialsense.com/fs-staff/martin-armstrong-we-are-witnessing-global-collapse-socialism
So much bullshit. Oy vey!
El Castor
2018-09-10 21:02:10 UTC
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Post by me
https://www.financialsense.com/fs-staff/martin-armstrong-we-are-witnessing-global-collapse-socialism
True! Just curious, can you give us an example of a successful
libertarian economy?
me
2018-09-10 21:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Well, most businesses are libertarian. They operate voluntarily. Where would we all be without them? How many socialist businesses do you know? Most social interactions are libertarian. Most people can perform their functions without being surveilled and policed by government agents. It’s my guess most people prefer liberty to obedience. Are you different?

Of course it is also the case that people (maybe most or all people) have no problem imposing rules on other people. The Yin and Yang of human nature.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml

Check out:
http://www.endit.info/Solutions.shtml

If this is correct:
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml

And Margaret Thatcher was correct: “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Then what do you expect will rebuild capital? Centralized control or individual liberty?
http://www.endit.info/Cycle.shtml
El Castor
2018-09-10 22:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Well, most businesses are libertarian. They operate voluntarily. Where would we all be without them? How many socialist businesses do you know? Most social interactions are libertarian. Most people can perform their functions without being surveilled and policed by government agents. It’s my guess most people prefer liberty to obedience. Are you different?
Of course it is also the case that people (maybe most or all people) have no problem imposing rules on other people. The Yin and Yang of human nature.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Solutions.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
And Margaret Thatcher was correct: “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Then what do you expect will rebuild capital? Centralized control or individual liberty?
http://www.endit.info/Cycle.shtml
I'm no fan of socialism. I think you should know that by now. Now, are
you going to answer my question? Can you give us an example of a
successful libertarian economy?
islander
2018-09-11 01:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by me
Well, most businesses are libertarian. They operate voluntarily. Where would we all be without them? How many socialist businesses do you know? Most social interactions are libertarian. Most people can perform their functions without being surveilled and policed by government agents. It’s my guess most people prefer liberty to obedience. Are you different?
Of course it is also the case that people (maybe most or all people) have no problem imposing rules on other people. The Yin and Yang of human nature.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Solutions.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
And Margaret Thatcher was correct: “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Then what do you expect will rebuild capital? Centralized control or individual liberty?
http://www.endit.info/Cycle.shtml
I'm no fan of socialism. I think you should know that by now. Now, are
you going to answer my question? Can you give us an example of a
successful libertarian economy?
Of course there is no successful libertarian economy, but that doesn't
keep them from trying. A lot of the libertarian beliefs come out of the
John Birch Society - in fact, Fred Koch, father of the Koch brothers was
a founding member of the John Birch Society. Some apples don't fall far
from the tree.

The Cato Institute is Libertarian and I discovered an interesting piece
of work done by a couple of their "researchers." Ruger & Sorens
produced a tome entitled *Freedom in the 50 States* which is essentially
a way of measuring adherence to Libertarian principles. The weights
that they use are interesting. For all the publicity about personal
freedom, their major emphasis is on fiscal policy (29.7%) and regulatory
policy (38.7%). This leaves only 29.4% for personal freedom. Not
surprisingly, there is a strong correlation between their scores on
fiscal and regulatory policy and conservative states. It is the
opposite for personal freedom with liberal states scoring higher. They
must have something against New York because it is way off scale on
their ranking for overall freedom.

I wonder how much of the noise coming from the far right is frustrated
Libertarians. It is certainly a big factor in use of public land.
me
2018-09-11 04:17:38 UTC
Permalink
There are few frosted libertarians because their are few libertarians.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml

But clearly, people all over the world are frustrated by government dictates that they see as detrimental to their interests. Those would be the very government edicts they formerly obeyed and were decreed by governments they elected. Isn’t it time you reassessed your assumptions?

Government is an exploitation tool.
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml

You see, stealing is not an economic policy with a long future. When nothing is left to exploit libertarian ideals will necessarily return. You can’t eat fiat money and you can’t fuck it. So eventually it returns to its intrinsic value. This is happening in a number of places right nowin more socialist countries. It’s a big mistake to think it can’t happen here.

These Two Countries Are Great Examples Of Why Small Governments Work
https://www.businessinsider.com/democracy-looks-great-on-paper-until-2012-4
b***@gmail.com
2018-09-11 08:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
There are few frosted libertarians because their are few libertarians.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml
But clearly, people all over the world are frustrated by government dictates that they see as detrimental to their interests. Those would be the very government edicts they formerly obeyed and were decreed by governments they elected. Isn’t it time you reassessed your assumptions?
Government is an exploitation tool.
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
You see, stealing is not an economic policy with a long future. When nothing is left to exploit libertarian ideals will necessarily return. You can’t eat fiat money and you can’t fuck it. So eventually it returns to its intrinsic value. This is happening in a number of places right nowin more socialist countries. It’s a big mistake to think it can’t happen here.
These Two Countries Are Great Examples Of Why Small Governments Work
https://www.businessinsider.com/democracy-looks-great-on-paper-until-2012-4
So, what is the libertarian position on monopoly? Should a single business be allowed to completely control some aspect of the economy and lock out all other competition?
me
2018-09-11 14:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Libertarians value choice not monopoly power. Government is monopoly power. “Power corrupts...”
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml

Even when there is a private monopoly one can choose not to support it. Don’t like Facebook? Don’t use it. Try that with laws and government agents.
Weatherman
2018-09-11 14:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
Try that with laws and government agents.
So not obeying the law of Prohibition did not lead to booze becoming
legal? How about pot? Civil rights?
me
2018-09-11 18:03:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Weatherman
Post by me
Try that with laws and government agents.
So not obeying the law of Prohibition did not lead to booze becoming
legal? How about pot? Civil rights?
So you understand the limits of the law. Good. You are not alone. Why should I obey your laws, for example? Governments fall because of civil disobedience. But that is costly. Spain will likely experience this before the US.
b***@gmail.com
2018-09-11 17:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
Libertarians value choice not monopoly power. Government is monopoly power. “Power corrupts...”
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml
Even when there is a private monopoly one can choose not to support it. Don’t like Facebook? Don’t use it. Try that with laws and government agents.
Don't like the internet? Don't use it. Don't like the telephone? Don't use it. Don't like expensive prescription drugs? Don't use them.
me
2018-09-11 17:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by me
Libertarians value choice not monopoly power. Government is monopoly power. “Power corrupts...”
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml
Even when there is a private monopoly one can choose not to support it. Don’t like Facebook? Don’t use it. Try that with laws and government agents.
Don't like the internet? Don't use it. Don't like the telephone? Don't use it. Don't like expensive prescription drugs? Don't use them.
That is a choice. You can also choose to put them in The Commons for exploitation via politics. But producers generally don't work for takers. Would you? Stealing is not a lasting economic policy. Yet, this is all non-libertarian governments do.
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Costs.shtml
islander
2018-09-11 17:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by me
Libertarians value choice not monopoly power. Government is monopoly power. “Power corrupts...”
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml
Even when there is a private monopoly one can choose not to support it. Don’t like Facebook? Don’t use it. Try that with laws and government agents.
Don't like the internet? Don't use it. Don't like the telephone? Don't use it. Don't like expensive prescription drugs? Don't use them.
Can one live in today's world without using modern technological tools?
Here, we battled with CenturyLink for years over the poor quality of the
service that they provided. They essentially had a monopoly on
providing telephone (and later DSL) service to the islands. Finally,
along came the Internet, a variety of VOIP phone systems and broadband
access. The trouble with competition is that sometimes it takes a long
time build a market with another technology.

Yes, one can choose to not use the product or service of a company, but
monopolistic practices produce poor performance and the customers
suffer. Better to enforce laws that prevent monopolies.
me
2018-09-11 18:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by b***@gmail.com
Post by me
Libertarians value choice not monopoly power. Government is monopoly power. “Power corrupts...”
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml
Even when there is a private monopoly one can choose not to support it. Don’t like Facebook? Don’t use it. Try that with laws and government agents.
Don't like the internet? Don't use it. Don't like the telephone? Don't use it. Don't like expensive prescription drugs? Don't use them.
Can one live in today's world without using modern technological tools?
Here, we battled with CenturyLink for years over the poor quality of the
service that they provided. They essentially had a monopoly on
providing telephone (and later DSL) service to the islands. Finally,
along came the Internet, a variety of VOIP phone systems and broadband
access. The trouble with competition is that sometimes it takes a long
time build a market with another technology.
Yes, one can choose to not use the product or service of a company, but
monopolistic practices produce poor performance and the customers
suffer. Better to enforce laws that prevent monopolies.
Unfortunately laws often create monopolies, support oligopolies, and result in corruption.
me
2018-09-11 03:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Well, most businesses are libertarian. They operate voluntarily. Where would we all be without them? How many socialist businesses do you know? Most social interactions are libertarian. Most people can perform their functions without being surveilled and policed by government agents. It’s my guess most people prefer liberty to obedience. Are you different?

Of course it is also the case that people (maybe most or all people) have no problem imposing rules on other people. The Yin and Yang of human nature.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml

Check out:
http://www.endit.info/Solutions.shtml

If this is correct:
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml

And Margaret Thatcher was correct: “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Then what do you expect will rebuild capital? Centralized control or individual liberty?
http://www.endit.info/Cycle.shtml
El Castor
2018-09-11 05:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Well, most businesses are libertarian. They operate voluntarily. Where would we all be without them? How many socialist businesses do you know? Most social interactions are libertarian. Most people can perform their functions without being surveilled and policed by government agents. It’s my guess most people prefer liberty to obedience. Are you different?
Of course it is also the case that people (maybe most or all people) have no problem imposing rules on other people. The Yin and Yang of human nature.
http://www.endit.info/Reality.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Solutions.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
And Margaret Thatcher was correct: “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” Then what do you expect will rebuild capital? Centralized control or individual liberty?
http://www.endit.info/Cycle.shtml
Despite all your evasive beating around the bush, you still haven't
answered my question -- because we both know you can't. There are no
examples of successful libertarian countries. Small countries work
because they have populations that share the same language, ethnicity,
intellectual capacity, history, goals, and common interests -- in
short, the same genes. Larger countries require more complexity,
because their far more complex populations demand and require it.
me
2018-09-11 14:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Actually, America was once a libertarian economy. Government didn’t create Detroit. But it did destroy it. Feel free to contemplate our current non-libertarian economy. Take banking, for example. You must know something about that. How is it working out? Bad judgement and actions get rewarded with government/central bank welfare bailouts and failed actions get rewarded with bigger bonuses. Speaking of crony capitalism!
Result: more moral hazard; corruption; waste; fraud; abuse.

Extremes beget extremes. Extremes of financialization lead to extremes of wealth which lead to extremes of class disparity which lead to extremes of political polarization which lead to destabilization and collapse.
http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2018/09/how-things-fall-apart-extremes-arent.html


But there is more.
http://www.endit.info/Government.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml

Politics = Exploitation
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml

Who likes to be exploited? How many economies function for long when exploited?

Libertarian ideas will be relearned once production is needed to replace capital that has been destroyed by exploitation. This happened in China where people have grown rich at an astounding rate since their effort rewards their individual interests, not merely that of the government.
El Castor
2018-09-11 17:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Actually, America was once a libertarian economy. Government didn’t create Detroit. But it did destroy it. Feel free to contemplate our current non-libertarian economy. Take banking, for example. You must know something about that. How is it working out? Bad judgement and actions get rewarded with government/central bank welfare bailouts and failed actions get rewarded with bigger bonuses. Speaking of crony capitalism!
Result: more moral hazard; corruption; waste; fraud; abuse.
Extremes beget extremes. Extremes of financialization lead to extremes of wealth which lead to extremes of class disparity which lead to extremes of political polarization which lead to destabilization and collapse.
http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2018/09/how-things-fall-apart-extremes-arent.html
But there is more.
http://www.endit.info/Government.shtml
http://www.endit.info/Home.shtml
Politics = Exploitation
http://www.endit.info/Theft.shtml
Who likes to be exploited? How many economies function for long when exploited?
Libertarian ideas will be relearned once production is needed to replace capital that has been destroyed by exploitation. This happened in China where people have grown rich at an astounding rate since their effort rewards their individual interests, not merely that of the government.
In short -- no, you can't come up with a libertarian country, however
you are not short on blather.
tunderbar
2018-09-10 22:39:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
https://www.financialsense.com/fs-staff/martin-armstrong-we-are-witnessin
g-global-collapse-socialism
Trump's a borrow and spend socialist who is driving up the national debt.

You are a socialist because you rely on government programs.

Brainless, poor and uneducated, you don't possess a capitalist bone in your
body, just an empty ideaology with a picture of Trump's puffy face on it.
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