Discussion:
Had enough Jeff?
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Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 00:15:04 UTC
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From a now-deleted Trump tweet:

"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
El Castor
2021-01-07 02:55:29 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!

Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
islander
2021-01-07 15:41:34 UTC
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Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that Trump
has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
El Castor
2021-01-07 18:38:14 UTC
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Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that Trump
has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
islander
2021-01-07 19:42:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that Trump
has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I think that you may have been subject to Trump administration
propaganda. For every claim that you have for Trump's accomplishments,
I believe that I can document why they were exaggerated or otherwise
misleading. But, what's the use? Let's just move on. Be a real
conservative!

Related, Ezra Klein, in his first editorial for the NYT, quotes Salena
Zito from a 2016 article in The Atlantic in which she complained that
the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take
him seriously, but not literally.” Probably true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html

Personally, I prefer a leader who understands the meaning of words and
their impact.
El Castor
2021-01-08 00:00:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that Trump
has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I think that you may have been subject to Trump administration
propaganda. For every claim that you have for Trump's accomplishments,
I believe that I can document why they were exaggerated or otherwise
misleading. But, what's the use? Let's just move on. Be a real
conservative!
Not to worry. I am familiar with Trump Derangement Syndrome. I would
be glad to engage in an endless pointless argument, but my greatest
concerns are with the future, not the past. China, Iran, the southern
border, and a Green Bad Deal. If he handles those correctly I might
even consider voting for the man, but forgive me if I don't hold my
breath. BTW, will his son continue to rake in the foreign dollars with
dad in the White House?
Post by islander
Related, Ezra Klein, in his first editorial for the NYT, quotes Salena
Zito from a 2016 article in The Atlantic in which she complained that
the press took Trump “literally, but not seriously; his supporters take
him seriously, but not literally.” Probably true.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opinion/trump-capitol-protests.html
Personally, I prefer a leader who understands the meaning of words and
their impact.
So would I. If we get one of those please let me know.
max 232
2021-01-07 20:07:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the great
patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long. Go home
in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands of
Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken, and a more
vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was underway, where in
the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have been in front of the
crowd, or better yet a TV camera, condemning the violence in no
uncertain terms and reading the riot act to those jackasses! He should
have been directing the defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering
them on? Hiding under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence,
apparently the man in charge and the only adult in the house!!
Grrrrrr! Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative or
Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa and the
radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility that knowing
there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful demonstration in DC,
perhaps some elements of the left thought they might just get some
violence going? There seem to be photos of the worst of the ring
leaders, so maybe in the days to come there may be arrests and we
might find out who they are associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that Trump
has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
Johnny
2021-01-07 20:19:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 12:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped
away from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly
treated for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this
day forever!"
Yes! I have had enough! Yee Gods, what a mess! I wipe my hands
of Trump! While the capitol was being stormed, windows broken,
and a more vile desecration than I could begin to imagine was
underway, where in the Hell was Trump? Tweeting? He should have
been in front of the crowd, or better yet a TV camera,
condemning the violence in no uncertain terms and reading the
riot act to those jackasses! He should have been directing the
defense of the Capitol! Where was he. Cheering them on? Hiding
under a bed? What did he do? Left it up to Pence, apparently the
man in charge and the only adult in the house!! Grrrrrr!
Arghhhhh!
Not to defend Trump's inexcusable behavior one iota, and all his
bitching about an election he claimed was "stolen", I do have to
wonder about one thing. Rioting is not generally a conservative
or Republican thing. Of late that has been the realm of Antifa
and the radical left. I have to wonder about the possibility
that knowing there would be a large but ostensibly peaceful
demonstration in DC, perhaps some elements of the left thought
they might just get some violence going? There seem to be photos
of the worst of the ring leaders, so maybe in the days to come
there may be arrests and we might find out who they are
associated with.
It has been a long journey, Jeff. Sadly, the worst damage that
Trump has done is to the Republican party. Will more moderate
voices prevail?
I hope so. We need conservative voices to counter liberal
extremes,
but those voices need to be rational.
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the
man's out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give
him an A policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of
presidential behavior. Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's
populist message that people were voting for, while Trump's name was
on the ballot. I think Trump may have not had his heart in it,
because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the
wayside. Had Bannon been president, the course would have been more
steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans. In Trump's
defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive
support meant that the populist legislation never came up for vote.
Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
I believe Mitch McConnell is partly responsible for democrats gaining
two seats in the Senate. He refused to sign off on that 2000 dollar
stimulus check. Two thousand dollars will make a lot of people get out
and vote, and maybe change the way they were going to vote.

Trump asked him if he had a death wish. Now the democrats are going to
approve that two thousand dollar check anyway.
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 23:42:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade. He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!

The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.

In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
El Castor
2021-01-08 00:15:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade.
Keep in mind that immigration and trade have a lot to do with American
prosperity, employment, and our place in the world, And not to forget
Iran, remarkable progress for Israel (thanks to Trump's Jewish
son-in-law), bringing the troops home, Black jobs, and Warp Speed.
Remember Islander saying that a vaccine before year end was an
impossibility -- that was the left wing mantra.

But, water under the bridge. Biden is the new focus of attention. I
hope he does well.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!
The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.
In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
max 232
2021-01-08 02:34:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade. He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!
The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.
In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
I know it seems that way. But those were things that as executive Trump could
do so those are the ones that got most of his attention. McConnell was no help.

Repeal and replace ACA was another. He had talked a lot of that while campaigning.
The repeal failed because McCain let his emotions determine his deciding vote. And the replacement
part that Trump had wanted was never mentioned after he was elected I believe for two reasons.
First of all McConnell had Trump convinced it would have be after ACA was repealed and then once
that vote was over, McConnell said it would have to wait until Trumps second term.
Its too bad because I believe a lot of independents voted for Trump on that issue. However, Trump
learned he could do nothing without McConnell and 2) medical costs I believe were not personal for Trump.
So Trump was reduced to doing executive orders over the summer on this issue.

He campaigned that foreign wars would be de-escalated and troops brought home. He mostly lived
up to his promise on that. Had another Bush been in office I would have bet big money we
would have war escalating in the mid-east.

He also campaigned on term limits. Cruz introduced a bill but it went no where because of McConnell.

Pulling out of the Paris agreement was also part of Trump's campaign. As executive this
was something he could do and US emissions have been dropping since 2004 while
China and India emissions have skyrocketed and won't peak for another 15 years.
Trump should have conditionally rejoined on the grounds that the other nations
acknowledge that this is not on the US to do something, but other nations would have to
do more on emissions.

Immigration may have appealed to the minority, but I think a lot of people
believed trade was very important, either because of loss of US jobs or farm trade.
Trump did not start a trade war, China started that one a long time ago.
I have often said that Trump had the temperament of a 6 yr old boy and the
emotional insecurity of a 14 yr old girl, but I do believe he had a good understanding of
how the trade imbalances are hurting our economy and indirectly our tax revenues.
Even a fifth grader understands that if you have more money going out to someone
to buy things and you turn around and borrow from them to buy more, that it is a
downward spiral that doesn't end well.
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-08 04:12:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by max 232
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade. He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!
The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.
In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
I know it seems that way. But those were things that as executive Trump could
do so those are the ones that got most of his attention. McConnell was no help.
Repeal and replace ACA was another. He had talked a lot of that while campaigning.
The repeal failed because McCain let his emotions determine his deciding vote. And the replacement
part that Trump had wanted was never mentioned after he was elected I believe for two reasons.
First of all McConnell had Trump convinced it would have be after ACA was repealed and then once
that vote was over, McConnell said it would have to wait until Trumps second term.
Its too bad because I believe a lot of independents voted for Trump on that issue. However, Trump
learned he could do nothing without McConnell and 2) medical costs I believe were not personal for Trump.
So Trump was reduced to doing executive orders over the summer on this issue.
He campaigned that foreign wars would be de-escalated and troops brought home. He mostly lived
up to his promise on that. Had another Bush been in office I would have bet big money we
would have war escalating in the mid-east.
He also campaigned on term limits. Cruz introduced a bill but it went no where because of McConnell.
Pulling out of the Paris agreement was also part of Trump's campaign. As executive this
was something he could do and US emissions have been dropping since 2004 while
China and India emissions have skyrocketed and won't peak for another 15 years.
Trump should have conditionally rejoined on the grounds that the other nations
acknowledge that this is not on the US to do something, but other nations would have to
do more on emissions.
Trump doesn't care, one way or the other, on the ACA, wars, term limits
or climate change. He'd be just as happy to take the opposition position
if it suited him politically.
Post by max 232
Immigration may have appealed to the minority, but I think a lot of people
believed trade was very important, either because of loss of US jobs or farm trade.
Trump did not start a trade war, China started that one a long time ago.
I have often said that Trump had the temperament of a 6 yr old boy and the
emotional insecurity of a 14 yr old girl, but I do believe he had a good understanding of
how the trade imbalances are hurting our economy and indirectly our tax revenues.
Even a fifth grader understands that if you have more money going out to someone
to buy things and you turn around and borrow from them to buy more, that it is a
downward spiral that doesn't end well.
El Castor
2021-01-08 07:22:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by max 232
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade. He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!
The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.
In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
I know it seems that way. But those were things that as executive Trump could
do so those are the ones that got most of his attention. McConnell was no help.
Repeal and replace ACA was another. He had talked a lot of that while campaigning.
The repeal failed because McCain let his emotions determine his deciding vote. And the replacement
part that Trump had wanted was never mentioned after he was elected I believe for two reasons.
First of all McConnell had Trump convinced it would have be after ACA was repealed and then once
that vote was over, McConnell said it would have to wait until Trumps second term.
Its too bad because I believe a lot of independents voted for Trump on that issue. However, Trump
learned he could do nothing without McConnell and 2) medical costs I believe were not personal for Trump.
So Trump was reduced to doing executive orders over the summer on this issue.
He campaigned that foreign wars would be de-escalated and troops brought home. He mostly lived
up to his promise on that. Had another Bush been in office I would have bet big money we
would have war escalating in the mid-east.
He also campaigned on term limits. Cruz introduced a bill but it went no where because of McConnell.
Pulling out of the Paris agreement was also part of Trump's campaign. As executive this
was something he could do and US emissions have been dropping since 2004 while
China and India emissions have skyrocketed and won't peak for another 15 years.
Trump should have conditionally rejoined on the grounds that the other nations
acknowledge that this is not on the US to do something, but other nations would have to
do more on emissions.
Trump doesn't care, one way or the other, on the ACA, wars, term limits
or climate change. He'd be just as happy to take the opposition position
if it suited him politically.
Oncce again I am not excusing his recent behavior, but on the issue of
"wars"...

"But in late 2018, Mattis resigned when Trump sought to pull all U.S.
forces out of Syria. Last week, the Pentagon announced U.S. troops in
Iraq would drop to 3,000 this month from 5,200.
Under a February agreement with the Taliban, the Trump administration
committed to withdrawing all American forces from Afghanistan by next
April, as long as the Taliban reduced violence there. Its attacks have
actually increased in recent months.
As happened in the Vietnam War, America’s well-intentioned political
patience cannot match the fighting endurance of insurgents. So, the
U.S. drawdown continues anyway, with troop strength in Afghanistan
expected to fall from 8,600 now to 4,500 in coming weeks. That’s the
fewest stationed there since the earliest days of the Afghan War,
which begins its 20th year on Oct. 7."
https://www.miamiherald.com/article245730285.html

He also had remarkable success in encouraging the establishment of
diplomatic recognition and relations between Israel and several Arab
states.

As for trade, China was subsidizing its manufacturing industries with
cheap power -- the goal obviously to eliminate competitive foreign
manufacturing. The US was likely at the top of their list to be
crippled. This process progressed unopposed during the Obama
administration, and considering how entangled Hunter and father are in
their Chinese double dealing it certainly seems likely that Biden will
be little more than Beijing's tool.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by max 232
Immigration may have appealed to the minority, but I think a lot of people
believed trade was very important, either because of loss of US jobs or farm trade.
Trump did not start a trade war, China started that one a long time ago.
I have often said that Trump had the temperament of a 6 yr old boy and the
emotional insecurity of a 14 yr old girl, but I do believe he had a good understanding of
how the trade imbalances are hurting our economy and indirectly our tax revenues.
Even a fifth grader understands that if you have more money going out to someone
to buy things and you turn around and borrow from them to buy more, that it is a
downward spiral that doesn't end well.
max 232
2021-01-08 12:27:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by max 232
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Post by max 232
Post by El Castor
I would be glad to list Trump's positive accomplishments, and there
are many. I support his economic and foreign policies, but the man's
out of control ego destroyed him and his presidency. I give him an A
policywise, but an F for his appalling lack of presidential behavior.
Both are a product of his populism.
I support some of Trumps policies too Beav, but it was Bannon's populist message that
people were voting for, while Trump's name was on the ballot. I think Trump may have not
had his heart in it, because he can't related to most of the people he said he was going
to represent. So he let many things he campaigned on go by the wayside. Had Bannon been
president, the course would have been more steady and Elaine Chao would not have been Sec of Trans.
In Trump's defense he was really defeated by McConnell who's passive-aggressive support meant that
the populist legislation never came up for vote. Trump must have known he had no choice with McConnell.
There were only two issues Trump seemed to care about: immigration and
trade. He took Bannon's position on both, the former which put him at
home in part of the GOP (opposed by almost all Democrats) and the latter
which put him at home in part of the Democratic party (opposed by almost
all Republicans). In both cases, you have positions that have very
strong popular appeal among a minority, but are much, much less strongly
opposed by the majority. And, the minority think the majority are
arrogant elitists who only care about themselves, while the majority
honestly believe they have the correct position for the good of the
country (arrogant, yes - but right on the merits). What a mess!
The GOP will now have to decide post-Trump if it wants to embrace
Bannonism (aka economic nationalism). I'm skeptical the party can do
that given they would be an even further minority party than they are now.
In any event, on immigration, Trump was all hat and no cattle. On trade,
he went to war with China with little to show for it in my opinion.
I know it seems that way. But those were things that as executive Trump could
do so those are the ones that got most of his attention. McConnell was no help.
Repeal and replace ACA was another. He had talked a lot of that while campaigning.
The repeal failed because McCain let his emotions determine his deciding vote. And the replacement
part that Trump had wanted was never mentioned after he was elected I believe for two reasons.
First of all McConnell had Trump convinced it would have be after ACA was repealed and then once
that vote was over, McConnell said it would have to wait until Trumps second term.
Its too bad because I believe a lot of independents voted for Trump on that issue. However, Trump
learned he could do nothing without McConnell and 2) medical costs I believe were not personal for Trump.
So Trump was reduced to doing executive orders over the summer on this issue.
He campaigned that foreign wars would be de-escalated and troops brought home. He mostly lived
up to his promise on that. Had another Bush been in office I would have bet big money we
would have war escalating in the mid-east.
He also campaigned on term limits. Cruz introduced a bill but it went no where because of McConnell.
Pulling out of the Paris agreement was also part of Trump's campaign. As executive this
was something he could do and US emissions have been dropping since 2004 while
China and India emissions have skyrocketed and won't peak for another 15 years.
Trump should have conditionally rejoined on the grounds that the other nations
acknowledge that this is not on the US to do something, but other nations would have to
do more on emissions.
Trump doesn't care, one way or the other, on the ACA, wars, term limits
or climate change. He'd be just as happy to take the opposition position
if it suited him politically.
I believe you are mostly right. It was never about the nation, it was all about him.
His fat head overshadowed Bannon's message.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by max 232
Immigration may have appealed to the minority, but I think a lot of people
believed trade was very important, either because of loss of US jobs or farm trade.
Trump did not start a trade war, China started that one a long time ago.
I have often said that Trump had the temperament of a 6 yr old boy and the
emotional insecurity of a 14 yr old girl, but I do believe he had a good understanding of
how the trade imbalances are hurting our economy and indirectly our tax revenues.
Even a fifth grader understands that if you have more money going out to someone
to buy things and you turn around and borrow from them to buy more, that it is a
downward spiral that doesn't end well.
Johnny
2021-01-07 14:05:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the
great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long.
Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters believe
it.

Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.

https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny
2021-01-07 18:14:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden is
already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification process
that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from doing
that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order, not
looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of the
right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest movements,
then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like that Kyle
Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as conservative
protests, and being destructive then it is likely that the only thing
they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy civil govt. There are
people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe things
are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible sounding
argument and others buy into it, without giving it a simple common
sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?

You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to lose,
they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop that. This
was just another opportunity to place the blame on Trump.

Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 18:25:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden is
already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification process
that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from doing
that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order, not
looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of the
right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest movements,
then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like that Kyle
Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as conservative
protests, and being destructive then it is likely that the only thing
they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy civil govt. There are
people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe things
are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible sounding
argument and others buy into it, without giving it a simple common
sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
Citation for that claim?
Post by Johnny
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to lose,
they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop that. This
was just another opportunity to place the blame on Trump.
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
Johnny
2021-01-07 18:35:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 10:25:11 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden
is already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification
process that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from
doing that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order,
not looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of
the right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest
movements, then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like
that Kyle Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as
conservative protests, and being destructive then it is likely
that the only thing they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy
civil govt. There are people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe
things are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible
sounding argument and others buy into it, without giving it a
simple common sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
Citation for that claim?
Post by Johnny
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to
lose, they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop
that. This was just another opportunity to place the blame on
Trump.
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
Joe Biden won 3 of every 4 mail ballots in Pennsylvania.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/mail-ballots-pennsylvania-election-trump-biden-20201119.html
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 19:00:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 10:25:11 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden
is already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification
process that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from
doing that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order,
not looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of
the right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest
movements, then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like
that Kyle Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as
conservative protests, and being destructive then it is likely
that the only thing they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy
civil govt. There are people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe
things are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible
sounding argument and others buy into it, without giving it a
simple common sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
Citation for that claim?
Post by Johnny
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to
lose, they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop
that. This was just another opportunity to place the blame on
Trump.
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
Joe Biden won 3 of every 4 mail ballots in Pennsylvania.
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/mail-ballots-pennsylvania-election-trump-biden-20201119.html
That's true, but it's not "almost every mail in ballot." He won 65% of
them in Georgia and 38% in Utah (all of the vote is by mail in Utah).
max 232
2021-01-07 19:16:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden is
already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification process
that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from doing
that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order, not
looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of the
right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest movements,
then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like that Kyle
Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as conservative
protests, and being destructive then it is likely that the only thing
they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy civil govt. There are
people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe things
are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible sounding
argument and others buy into it, without giving it a simple common
sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
No. But more people for Biden voted by mail than did for Trump.
That was expected before election day. but not "almost every ballot was for Biden".
Post by Johnny
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to lose,
they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop that. This
was just another opportunity to place the blame on Trump.
I don't know why they would waste their time to place blame on him. Trump does
enough to damage to himself, no one has to do it for him.
They went down to the capital building because Trump told them to.
Post by Johnny
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
That is probably a means to prevent him from trying to run for office again.
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 19:20:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by max 232
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden is
already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification process
that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from doing
that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order, not
looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of the
right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest movements,
then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like that Kyle
Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as conservative
protests, and being destructive then it is likely that the only thing
they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy civil govt. There are
people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe things
are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible sounding
argument and others buy into it, without giving it a simple common
sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
No. But more people for Biden voted by mail than did for Trump.
That was expected before election day. but not "almost every ballot was for Biden".
Post by Johnny
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to lose,
they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop that. This
was just another opportunity to place the blame on Trump.
I don't know why they would waste their time to place blame on him. Trump does
enough to damage to himself, no one has to do it for him.
They went down to the capital building because Trump told them to.
Post by Johnny
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
That is probably a means to prevent him from trying to run for office again.
Only impeachment and removal can be used to prevent him from running again.
islander
2021-01-07 19:19:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 09:52:10 -0800 (PST)
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Johnny, according to that linked article that guy is a Qanon and
Trump supporter.
So who are these people?
1) You say that those people that broke into the Capital don't look
like Trump supporters and probably trouble makers planted by
liberals. 2) If these same people were at liberal protests like in
Portland, it is just as reasonable to believe they are actually
trouble makers planted at liberal protests by conservatives.
#1 is not likely for the reason that it makes no sense when Biden is
already set to be seated to try to disrupt the certification process
that would confirm him. Liberals have nothing to gain from doing
that. #2 Is plausible, but most conservatives favour order, not
looting and burning even if it is just to inflame the rest of the
right. More likely if they are seen at liberal protest movements,
then it is to protect property, not destroy it. Like that Kyle
Rittenhouse.
If the same people are showing up at liberal as well as conservative
protests, and being destructive then it is likely that the only thing
they support is anarchy. Seeking to destroy civil govt. There are
people like that.
The trap so many are falling into to, is they want to believe things
are the way they want them to be. So they sell a plausible sounding
argument and others buy into it, without giving it a simple common
sense test.
I'll have simple common sense test you. Does common sense tell you
that almost every mail in ballot would be for Biden?
You say liberals have nothing to gain. They also have nothing to lose,
they know Biden is going to be president. Nothing can stop that. This
was just another opportunity to place the blame on Trump.
Schumer is already calling for his impeachment or removal by the 25
amendment.
Johnny, where do you get your statistics?

No, NOT almost every mail in ballot was for Biden. There are statistics
available on a state-by-state basis. For example, in Pennsylvania, 75%
of mail-in ballots were for Biden. In Wisconsin, 66% were for Biden.
El Castor
2021-01-07 18:43:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide
victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from the
great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated for so long.
Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters believe
it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Trump may or may not have been right about the election being stolen,
but in our democracy those issues are (and must be) settled in a court
-- not by an angry mob. If Trump doesn't understand that, or can't
accept it, he has no business being president of the United Srates.
Johnny
2021-01-07 18:51:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 10:43:13 -0800
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Trump may or may not have been right about the election being stolen,
but in our democracy those issues are (and must be) settled in a court
-- not by an angry mob. If Trump doesn't understand that, or can't
accept it, he has no business being president of the United Srates.
Trump didn't start the riot, and he tried to settle it in court, but
democrat judges and governors wouldn't allow it.
Josh Rosenbluth
2021-01-07 18:59:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 10:43:13 -0800
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 16:15:04 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
"These are the things and events that happen when a sacred
landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away
from the great patriots who have been badly and unfairly treated
for so long. Go home in love & in peace. Remember this day
forever!"
You find something wrong with what Trump said? He believes the
election was stolen from him, I believe it, and his supporters
believe it.
Those people that broke into the Capitol don't look like Trump
supporters to me. Probably trouble makers planted there by the
liberals to cause exactly what happened.
https://wreg.com/news/horned-shirtless-man-at-the-capitol-demonstration-identified/
Trump may or may not have been right about the election being stolen,
but in our democracy those issues are (and must be) settled in a court
-- not by an angry mob. If Trump doesn't understand that, or can't
accept it, he has no business being president of the United Srates.
Trump didn't start the riot, and he tried to settle it in court, but
democrat judges and governors wouldn't allow it.
... because his case was bullshit.
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