Discussion:
Giuliani lays out Trump campaign's election challenges in fiery news conference with legal team
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Johnny
2020-11-19 21:39:09 UTC
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Permalink
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago

President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.

Cut!

"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.

Cut!

The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.

Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.

He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.

Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.

Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.


“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.


Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference

I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.

Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-19 23:01:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base (e.g.,
Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on 1/20/2021 while
tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in 2024.

What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to leave.
Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater did to Nixon
in 1974?
Johnny
2020-11-19 23:11:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:01:19 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of
the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused
them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base (e.g.,
Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on 1/20/2021
while tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in 2024.
What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to
leave. Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater
did to Nixon in 1974?
What if Giuliani proves in court there was national conspiracy, and
names the perpetrators in court?
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-19 23:25:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:01:19 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of
the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused
them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base (e.g.,
Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on 1/20/2021
while tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in 2024.
What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to
leave. Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater
did to Nixon in 1974?
What if Giuliani proves in court there was national conspiracy, and
names the perpetrators in court?
I will square dance naked in Times Square with islander.
Johnny
2020-11-19 23:31:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:25:37 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:01:19 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively
made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal
challenge of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news
conference that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter
fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and
accused them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in
Pennsylvania where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not
allowed to observe the counting process because they were kept
too far away. A judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that
they be permitted six feet away from the counting at a center in
Philadelphia, but that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors.
One affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from
Michigan voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the
election what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base
(e.g., Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on
1/20/2021 while tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in
2024.
What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to
leave. Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater
did to Nixon in 1974?
What if Giuliani proves in court there was national conspiracy, and
names the perpetrators in court?
I will square dance naked in Times Square with islander.
I can't wait to see that, I know it will be on Fox News.
islander
2020-11-20 19:19:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 15:01:19 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of
the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused
them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base (e.g.,
Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on 1/20/2021
while tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in 2024.
What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to
leave. Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater
did to Nixon in 1974?
What if Giuliani proves in court there was national conspiracy, and
names the perpetrators in court?
I will square dance naked in Times Square with islander.
Hey, speak for yourself!
me
2020-11-24 19:57:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
They all know its BS. Trump is doing this to rile up his base (e.g.,
Johnny). Most likely, Trump vacates the White House on 1/20/2021 while
tweeting how he was robbed. He then runs again in 2024.
What would be interesting, and very scary, is if Trump refuses to leave.
Then, all eyes turn to McConnell. Will he do what Goldwater did to Nixon
in 1974?
Sadly, it has become reasonable (no fantasy) to recognize that those who have been doing ‘regime change’ for the past 4 yrs using fed gov resources would continue their treason during the election. It is fantasy *not* to think it.
Stop the damage!
http://endit.info/Duopoly.shtml
El Castor
2020-11-20 05:56:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
Johnny
2020-11-20 14:19:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 21:56:20 -0800
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the
2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal
team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
That's what Giuliani is talking about, the rule of law. He has people
willing to go to court and swear there were illegal activities during
the mail in vote count.

How about fixing errors on ballots that should have been thrown out, or
unsigned ballots that got signed, and people went to vote in person to
find out they already voted.

What about the hundred thousand ballots in Michigan that should have
been invalid, because no one requested an application for them.

Giuliani had better have the witnesses and proof when he goes to court,
but he deserves the chance to prove his case, and the people of this
country need to know how crooked the democrat officials in charge of
the ballot counting are.
El Castor
2020-11-20 18:44:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 21:56:20 -0800
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the
2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal
team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
That's what Giuliani is talking about, the rule of law. He has people
willing to go to court and swear there were illegal activities during
the mail in vote count.
How about fixing errors on ballots that should have been thrown out, or
unsigned ballots that got signed, and people went to vote in person to
find out they already voted.
What about the hundred thousand ballots in Michigan that should have
been invalid, because no one requested an application for them.
Giuliani had better have the witnesses and proof when he goes to court,
but he deserves the chance to prove his case, and the people of this
country need to know how crooked the democrat officials in charge of
the ballot counting are.
Just shooting your mouth off on TV proves nothing. The courts are
waiting, and so are you and I. If he has the reams of evidence and
piles of testimony that he claims, then go to court, and do it now! It
would be an historic event and a momentous service to his country. I'm
waiting -- and waiting. However the Fox skepticism left me wondering
if it was going to happen.
islander
2020-11-20 19:28:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 21:56:20 -0800
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made
the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the
2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that
there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the
country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal
team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to
observe the counting process because they were kept too far away. A
judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted
six feet away from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but
that was overturned after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from Michigan
voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
That's what Giuliani is talking about, the rule of law. He has people
willing to go to court and swear there were illegal activities during
the mail in vote count.
How about fixing errors on ballots that should have been thrown out, or
unsigned ballots that got signed, and people went to vote in person to
find out they already voted.
What about the hundred thousand ballots in Michigan that should have
been invalid, because no one requested an application for them.
Giuliani had better have the witnesses and proof when he goes to court,
but he deserves the chance to prove his case, and the people of this
country need to know how crooked the democrat officials in charge of
the ballot counting are.
Just shooting your mouth off on TV proves nothing. The courts are
waiting, and so are you and I. If he has the reams of evidence and
piles of testimony that he claims, then go to court, and do it now! It
would be an historic event and a momentous service to his country. I'm
waiting -- and waiting. However the Fox skepticism left me wondering
if it was going to happen.
It looks like the time for the courts is past. There are a few cases
still pending, but Trump is withdrawing from most of the legal cases
that were still pending.

The last gasp attempt by Trump is political, not legal. He is
attempting to coerce Republican election board members in Michigan to
hang the certification with a tie, first in Wayne county, and then at
the state level. If successful, he is counting on the Republican
legislature to throw out the vote and assign loyalists to represent
Michigan in the Electoral College.

He would need to do this in three states to win.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-20 15:51:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Johnny
2020-11-20 16:04:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively
made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge
of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference
that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud
around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and
accused them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in
Pennsylvania where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not
allowed to observe the counting process because they were kept too
far away. A judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they
be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was
overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors.
One affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from
Michigan voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join
Josh and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign.
Trump is important, but not more important than the Constitution
and the rule of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly
tweeting he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would
it influence who you vote for (in the primaries or general election)
if he runs in 2024?
I assume you are replying to me, if you are you cut out what I wrote.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-20 16:07:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively
made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge
of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference
that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud
around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and
accused them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in
Pennsylvania where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not
allowed to observe the counting process because they were kept too
far away. A judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that they
be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was
overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors.
One affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to
assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from
Michigan voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by
saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join
Josh and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign.
Trump is important, but not more important than the Constitution
and the rule of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly
tweeting he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would
it influence who you vote for (in the primaries or general election)
if he runs in 2024?
I assume you are replying to me, if you are you cut out what I wrote.
I was replying to Jeff. But, I'd like to know your opinion too.
Johnny
2020-11-20 16:12:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 08:07:57 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively
made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal
challenge of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news
conference that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out
voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and
accused them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in
Pennsylvania where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not
allowed to observe the counting process because they were kept
too far away. A judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that
they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors.
One affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed
to assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from
Michigan voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of
new evidence at the news conference to support their allegations
by saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the
election what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses,
can't be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal
to surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly
join Josh and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out"
sign. Trump is important, but not more important than the
Constitution and the rule of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly
tweeting he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would
it influence who you vote for (in the primaries or general
election) if he runs in 2024?
I assume you are replying to me, if you are you cut out what I wrote.
I was replying to Jeff. But, I'd like to know your opinion too.
I will wait until Giuliani has his day in court, and see what happens
next.
El Castor
2020-11-20 19:04:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 08:07:57 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Johnny
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively
made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal
challenge of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news
conference that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out
voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at
the Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's
legal team, who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and
accused them of treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in
Pennsylvania where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not
allowed to observe the counting process because they were kept
too far away. A judge had ruled in their favor and ordered that
they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow
absentee voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were
given that opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan
from poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors.
One affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed
to assign ballots without names to random people, resulting in
thousands of people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find
that votes had been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed
workers to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they
arrived earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that
workers were told not to request photo identification from
Michigan voters, even though state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President
Trump in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of
new evidence at the news conference to support their allegations
by saying this was merely an "opening statement," and that more
evidence would be forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the
election what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses,
can't be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal
to surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly
join Josh and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out"
sign. Trump is important, but not more important than the
Constitution and the rule of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly
tweeting he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would
it influence who you vote for (in the primaries or general
election) if he runs in 2024?
I assume you are replying to me, if you are you cut out what I wrote.
I was replying to Jeff. But, I'd like to know your opinion too.
I will wait until Giuliani has his day in court, and see what happens
next.
Same here. If he can substantiate his charges it will be an historic
moment, but that is a big if.
El Castor
2020-11-20 19:00:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-20 19:17:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Let's say he leaves but continues to tweet without evidence (after
failing miserable in court) that the election was stolen from him?
El Castor
2020-11-20 20:20:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 11:17:57 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Let's say he leaves but continues to tweet without evidence (after
failing miserable in court) that the election was stolen from him?
So what? He's free to do that. I suppose Twitter might delete his
posts, but their ability to censor his tweets is an entirely different
issue.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-20 23:23:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 11:17:57 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Let's say he leaves but continues to tweet without evidence (after
failing miserable in court) that the election was stolen from him?
So what? He's free to do that. I suppose Twitter might delete his
posts, but their ability to censor his tweets is an entirely different
issue.
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
El Castor
2020-11-21 08:19:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 11:17:57 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Let's say he leaves but continues to tweet without evidence (after
failing miserable in court) that the election was stolen from him?
So what? He's free to do that. I suppose Twitter might delete his
posts, but their ability to censor his tweets is an entirely different
issue.
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
islander
2020-11-21 17:51:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
Johnny
2020-11-21 18:04:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 09:51:09 -0800
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him,
especially if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary?
Inn the general election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of
his tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden
administration, and most importantly the quality of his
competition. I think you know I voted for Ronald Reagan in the last
primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage did Trump do?
El Castor
2020-11-21 19:57:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.

Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.

Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.

What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-21 20:26:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
One conservative's viewpoint:

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
El Castor
2020-11-21 21:49:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...

1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.

On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01

I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-22 00:45:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
I think you misconstrued his argument. Firstly, Williamson argues that
Trump doesn't care about the Federalist Society, and Williamson is
ecstatic that Trump has effectively outsourced judicial nominations to
the Society as a result.

Williamson's major objection is that Trump's character results in bad
policies, none of which he cites are gun control or abortion. On
immigration, Williamson laments that Trump's been a failure by his own
stated goals (no wall, no plan, no reduced illegal immigration).

Or as he put it, "Trump's problem is not etiquette: It is dishonesty,
stupidity, and incompetence, magnified by the self-dealing and cowardice
of the cabal of enablers and sycophants who have a stake in pretending
that this unsalted s*** sandwich is filet mignon."
Post by El Castor
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
El Castor
2020-11-22 07:01:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 16:45:31 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
I think you misconstrued his argument. Firstly, Williamson argues that
Trump doesn't care about the Federalist Society, and Williamson is
ecstatic that Trump has effectively outsourced judicial nominations to
the Society as a result.
Williamson's major objection is that Trump's character results in bad
policies, none of which he cites are gun control or abortion. On
immigration, Williamson laments that Trump's been a failure by his own
stated goals (no wall, no plan, no reduced illegal immigration).
Or as he put it, "Trump's problem is not etiquette: It is dishonesty,
stupidity, and incompetence, magnified by the self-dealing and cowardice
of the cabal of enablers and sycophants who have a stake in pretending
that this unsalted s*** sandwich is filet mignon."
OK, you're right. I just skimmed it. From your description Williamson
just sounds like another tiresome Lefty. Belongs on CNN. You really
should take my advice and try thinking for yourself.
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
Josh Rosenbluth
2020-11-22 15:40:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 16:45:31 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
I think you misconstrued his argument. Firstly, Williamson argues that
Trump doesn't care about the Federalist Society, and Williamson is
ecstatic that Trump has effectively outsourced judicial nominations to
the Society as a result.
Williamson's major objection is that Trump's character results in bad
policies, none of which he cites are gun control or abortion. On
immigration, Williamson laments that Trump's been a failure by his own
stated goals (no wall, no plan, no reduced illegal immigration).
Or as he put it, "Trump's problem is not etiquette: It is dishonesty,
stupidity, and incompetence, magnified by the self-dealing and cowardice
of the cabal of enablers and sycophants who have a stake in pretending
that this unsalted s*** sandwich is filet mignon."
OK, you're right. I just skimmed it. From your description Williamson
just sounds like another tiresome Lefty. Belongs on CNN. You really
should take my advice and try thinking for yourself.
A lefty? He lauds the judicial nominations, the tax cuts and the easing
of regulations. He criticizes Trump for not coming through on the border
security and replacing Obamacare.
El Castor
2020-11-22 19:26:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 07:40:05 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 16:45:31 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
I think you misconstrued his argument. Firstly, Williamson argues that
Trump doesn't care about the Federalist Society, and Williamson is
ecstatic that Trump has effectively outsourced judicial nominations to
the Society as a result.
Williamson's major objection is that Trump's character results in bad
policies, none of which he cites are gun control or abortion. On
immigration, Williamson laments that Trump's been a failure by his own
stated goals (no wall, no plan, no reduced illegal immigration).
Or as he put it, "Trump's problem is not etiquette: It is dishonesty,
stupidity, and incompetence, magnified by the self-dealing and cowardice
of the cabal of enablers and sycophants who have a stake in pretending
that this unsalted s*** sandwich is filet mignon."
OK, you're right. I just skimmed it. From your description Williamson
just sounds like another tiresome Lefty. Belongs on CNN. You really
should take my advice and try thinking for yourself.
A lefty? He lauds the judicial nominations, the tax cuts and the easing
of regulations. He criticizes Trump for not coming through on the border
security and replacing Obamacare.
Regarding border security, I believe Trump did the best he could under
difficult circumstances and Democrat opposition, and he still
accomplished a lot.

"Trump’s unheralded border success"
"The reason you don’t see breathless hyperbole about “children in
cages” dominating news cycles anymore is because between May and
August, border officials report a sharp decrease in migrants
attempting to cross the US border, with apprehensions falling by 62%
and total enforcement actions dropping by 70%.
In September, there were some 40,000 arrests, the lowest month this
fiscal year and down from nearly 133,000 apprehensions in May.
The reason? Determination and sustained pressure by the Trump
administration — including, yes, threats of tariffs — to convince the
government of Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador to do its
part to stop the flow of migrants, mostly from Central America
traversing Mexican territory." ...
"It’s not surprising that Trump’s critics remain unmollified. They
wanted the border infrastructure to buckle under the weight of the
migration onslaught and overwhelm immigration courts, resulting in
tens of thousands of migrants entering the US with scant oversight.
But the Trump administration held firm and was able to defuse the
crisis."
https://nypost.com/2019/11/07/trumps-unheralded-border-success/

Replacing Obamacare? That would be like demanding that he replace a
steaming pile of shit with a better smelling pile -- and all with the
"help" of a Democrat House. I can't wait to see what Biden and a
Republican Senate accomplish on that one.
islander
2020-11-22 01:29:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.

Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
El Castor
2020-11-22 07:04:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
islander
2020-11-22 22:53:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.

1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.

2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.

3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.

4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.

5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)

6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.

7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.

I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
El Castor
2020-11-23 00:13:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
islander
2020-11-23 00:51:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid. But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
El Castor
2020-11-23 08:29:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
islander
2020-11-23 15:33:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
in the expected personnel appointments of Biden:

Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken

Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan

Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield

Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen

What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
El Castor
2020-11-23 20:42:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
islander
2020-11-24 00:28:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.

Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
El Castor
2020-11-24 06:58:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
I am one of those dreaded climate change skeptics. Kerry is not just a
climate change promoter, he is a fanatic on the subject. I have to
believe he will be a promoter of some version of the Green New Deal in
disguise.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.
Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
Trump is history. Biden is the future, whatever form that may take. I
am very concerned about the talking heads on CNN. Without Trump to
hate, what will the poor things do?
islander
2020-11-24 16:03:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
I am one of those dreaded climate change skeptics. Kerry is not just a
climate change promoter, he is a fanatic on the subject. I have to
believe he will be a promoter of some version of the Green New Deal in
disguise.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.
Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
Trump is history. Biden is the future, whatever form that may take. I
am very concerned about the talking heads on CNN. Without Trump to
hate, what will the poor things do?
I suspect that Trump will not give up the publicity easy and he
obviously believes that there is no such thing as bad publicity. So, I
expect him to continue to do outlandish things to stay in the news.
This is a man who thrives on chaos, even if he has to create chaos. The
question is whether CNN will bite. Or will CNN come to understand that
the public is tired of constant chaos and switch to a more optimistic
reporting of progress by the Biden administration. Time will tell.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of CNN with the exception of Fareed
Zakaria who I watch religiously.
El Castor
2020-11-24 19:08:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
I am one of those dreaded climate change skeptics. Kerry is not just a
climate change promoter, he is a fanatic on the subject. I have to
believe he will be a promoter of some version of the Green New Deal in
disguise.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.
Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
Trump is history. Biden is the future, whatever form that may take. I
am very concerned about the talking heads on CNN. Without Trump to
hate, what will the poor things do?
I suspect that Trump will not give up the publicity easy and he
obviously believes that there is no such thing as bad publicity. So, I
expect him to continue to do outlandish things to stay in the news.
This is a man who thrives on chaos, even if he has to create chaos. The
question is whether CNN will bite. Or will CNN come to understand that
the public is tired of constant chaos and switch to a more optimistic
reporting of progress by the Biden administration. Time will tell.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of CNN with the exception of Fareed
Zakaria who I watch religiously.
Our service provider, Xfinity, placed CNN on the dial next to Fox, so
it's easy to tune over there occasionally to see what's up. They have
one guiding principle -- if it's Trump, it's wrong, and not just a
little wrong, BIG wrong. I am curious to see how they handle a Biden
administration. Should be an interesting ride. (-8
islander
2020-11-24 20:03:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
I am one of those dreaded climate change skeptics. Kerry is not just a
climate change promoter, he is a fanatic on the subject. I have to
believe he will be a promoter of some version of the Green New Deal in
disguise.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.
Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
Trump is history. Biden is the future, whatever form that may take. I
am very concerned about the talking heads on CNN. Without Trump to
hate, what will the poor things do?
I suspect that Trump will not give up the publicity easy and he
obviously believes that there is no such thing as bad publicity. So, I
expect him to continue to do outlandish things to stay in the news.
This is a man who thrives on chaos, even if he has to create chaos. The
question is whether CNN will bite. Or will CNN come to understand that
the public is tired of constant chaos and switch to a more optimistic
reporting of progress by the Biden administration. Time will tell.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of CNN with the exception of Fareed
Zakaria who I watch religiously.
Our service provider, Xfinity, placed CNN on the dial next to Fox, so
it's easy to tune over there occasionally to see what's up. They have
one guiding principle -- if it's Trump, it's wrong, and not just a
little wrong, BIG wrong. I am curious to see how they handle a Biden
administration. Should be an interesting ride. (-8
While I am not a big fan of CNN, I expect Biden to get a "honeymoon"
period from most major networks. Otherwise, I expect them to report the
news.
El Castor
2020-11-24 21:09:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:26:04 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:23:55 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
My question is will it make a difference in how you see him, especially
if he runs in 2024? Would you vote for him the primary? Inn the general
election?
It might make a difference, but it depends on a lot of things -- the
quality and quantity of evidence of cheating, the exact nature of his
tweats, the magnitude of the disaster of a Biden administration, and
most importantly the quality of his competition. I think you know I
voted for Ronald Reagan in the last primary.
Not a bad idea! A ghost would have done less damage.
What damage? Trump did far more for the poor and African Americans
than Obama/Biden ever did.
Jobs: Legal and illegal Hispanic immigration takes jobs that would
largely be filled by African Americans. Trump's genuine and successful
efforts at border control combined with his administrations 2017
Econmoic Development and Jobs Act opened up the job market for African
Americans and gave them the lowest unemployment rate since it was
first recorded in 1992.
Economy: The above, combined with his corporate Tax Cut and pressure
on China, returned significant manufacturing to the United States, and
provided even more jobs to those who needed them -- of all races.
What will Biden do? I am confident that he will open the borders, tax
the corporations (which is really a tax on jobs and all of us), and
bow to his Chinese masters -- destroying the US steel business and
returning manufacturing to China. Please prove me wrong.
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/hell-no/
He seems to make two points ...
1. Trump can be a loud mouthed jerk. Can't argue with that.
2. Trump isn't sufficiently right wing -- doesn't kowtow to the
Federalist Society, etc.
On #2 all I can say is good for Trump. Personally I rely on logic, not
dogma, and ultimately Trump seems to do the same. The far Right and
the far Left are driven by emotion. Logic isn't in their vocabulary.
For me, gun control -- good. Abortion -- not really any of my
business. Disintegration of the Black family -- very bad. Immigration
control -- good. Animal cruelty -- very bad. etc. I'm sure the
Federalist Society would find me, and Trump, despicable. Yup, just
looked it up. "Cofounder Of Conservative Federalist Society Calls For
President Trump To Be Impeached".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/07/30/cofounder-of-conservative-federalist-society-calls-for-president-trump-to-be-impeached/?sh=23262c412a01
I support Trump for one reason -- loud mouthed jerk that he can be, he
has promoted policies that I believe are beneficial to the nation as a
whole, and by that I mean everyone, not the rich, not the poor, not
the Black, not the White -- Everyone.
We will see what damage Trump has done in the form of Presidential
Directives, especially in the first 100 days of a Biden administration.
Personally, I'm looking forward to who he selects for his cabinet. That
is probably the best measure of what we can expect him to accomplish.
What specifically do you hope Biden will accomplish?
A lot will depend on whether the Democrats get control of the Senate and
even if they manage to win both seats in Georgia, the Democrats still
have to have the courage to eliminate the 60 vote threshold to prevent
obstructionism by the Republicans. I'm not very confident that either
is going to happen, so I need to calibrate my expectations accordingly.
1. Highest priority has to be to get past the pandemic and vaccines
notwithstanding, that is going to be difficult. I expect that the Biden
administration will focus on a strong federal effort to bring people
together around solid science and build confidence that there will be
equitable attention brought to all aspects of exposure, treatment, and
distribution of the vaccines. He can do most of this with executive orders.
2. Work with both sides to get financial assistance to help avoid a
financial crisis to carry us until the virus is substantially over. The
biggest problem to overcome here is the majority leader in the Senate,
but there is substantial interest on both sides to implement a stimulus
package and this will be a major test of his legislative experience in
building agreements across party lines.
3. An infrastructure program is another example of where there is strong
interest on both sides and is a good way to create jobs. Once again,
this is a test of his experience and I think that he can rise to the task.
4. Immigration is a mess and I expect him to take immediate action to
find and reunite the ~550 children still in custody with their parents.
I expect him to do this in collaboration with the NGOs that have been
about the only effort on this until now. I also expect him to
reestablish the DACA program with an executive order and to continue to
work on a legislative and more permanent solutions. There is advocacy
for this in Congress. The biggest problem is to get it to the floor of
the Senate where enough Republicans can be persuaded to finally get this
off their plate.
5. I expect the Biden administration to make a major effort to
reestablish our partnerships with countries in the rest of the world.
High on the list will be NATO, WHO, nuclear disarmament (especially
START nuclear accord), rejoining the Paris Climate Accord,
reestablishing the Iran Nuclear Accord (going to be very difficult), and
reestablish the Pacific Trade agreement. (Note that China has stepped
into the vacuum and has their own Pacific Trade agreement in the works.)
6. I expect to see a new emphasis on how police enforcement can be
improved by addressing the problem of unreasonably high expectations
placed on police to solve problems that they are poorly equipped to
handle. On the judicial side, I expect to see some major housecleaning
in DoJ.
7. Without control of the Senate, I don't see any major tax legislation.
While we might see some progress toward a single payer health
insurance system, any progress on health care is likely to be fixing
minor problems around the edges where the Biden administration can get
bipartisan agreement.
I can probably think of a lot more, but that will do for now.
Given the circumstances of a Democrat presidency, I'm OK with most of
that, however I'm not anxious to see a return to Chinese dominance of
manufacturing. Any deals with Iran have to be approached very
carefully. I'm OK with DACA, but a return to an uncontrolled southern
border would, I believe, be a terrible mistake. What I find most
worrisome is the possibility of a dominance of the Biden
administration by the Squad and their allies in congress.
Personally, I think that you are being paranoid.
I hope you are right. We shall see.
Post by islander
But, a lot of other
things happened during the Trump administration that I would not have
imagined would happen four years ago.
In the news this morning, I see additional support for my points above
Tony Blinken - Sec State - Deep experience in international diplomacy,
expected to focus on rebuilding international relationships and
reestablishing long standing partnerships with other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blinken
Jake Sullivan - Nat Sec Advisor - Very experienced in foreign policy,
especially in arms control. Advocate in restoring START treaty to
control nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Sullivan
Linda Thomas-Greenfield - UN Representative - Expert on African affairs
and advocate for a national policy on immigration, refugees, and migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Thomas-Greenfield
Meanwhile, the economy is moving to the fore with a double dip recession
being forecast in the 2nd quarter of 2021. Biden is expected to name
Janet Yellen - Sec Treasury - She brings extensive experience in
economics including serving on the FED, most recently as Chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Yellen
And I see he just appointed John Kerry "Climate Czar", or should I say
"Biden Handler"? Green New Deal here we come.
Why do you come to that conclusion? Kerry has the necessary diplomatic
chops to negotiate with other countries. He has been an advocate for
setting goals and working to meet them, both at home and with other
countries. Is that a bad thing?
I am one of those dreaded climate change skeptics. Kerry is not just a
climate change promoter, he is a fanatic on the subject. I have to
believe he will be a promoter of some version of the Green New Deal in
disguise.
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
What is Trump doing in his final days in office? He is threatening to
veto the Defense Budget over a dispute to rename bases named after
Confederate Generals. In the face of increasing mortgage defaults, he
has renewed the effort to move the GSEs to Treasury. And, has changed
strategy to dispute the Biden win with political threats and handicap
the transition by refusing to release transition funds.
From my perspective he seems to be devoting time (or at least
interest) to vaccines, and has drawn down the number of soldiers in
Afghanistan and (I believe) Iraq. He has also recently had success at
promoting establishment of diplomatic and trade relations between
Israel and some Arab states. Also, I agree, little or no cooperation
with the transition.
Trump has been mostly playing golf and tweeting. The changes that are
being rushed through in the remaining days of his lame duck
administration and likely being pushed by his cabinet and staff. At
this point, he is a signature on whatever they can convince him will
handicap Biden and his administration. At least his attempt to delay a
decision out of Michigan has failed and Biden's win there is now certified.
Trump and his administration are reduced to throwing sand in the gears.
Trump is history. Biden is the future, whatever form that may take. I
am very concerned about the talking heads on CNN. Without Trump to
hate, what will the poor things do?
I suspect that Trump will not give up the publicity easy and he
obviously believes that there is no such thing as bad publicity. So, I
expect him to continue to do outlandish things to stay in the news.
This is a man who thrives on chaos, even if he has to create chaos. The
question is whether CNN will bite. Or will CNN come to understand that
the public is tired of constant chaos and switch to a more optimistic
reporting of progress by the Biden administration. Time will tell.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of CNN with the exception of Fareed
Zakaria who I watch religiously.
Our service provider, Xfinity, placed CNN on the dial next to Fox, so
it's easy to tune over there occasionally to see what's up. They have
one guiding principle -- if it's Trump, it's wrong, and not just a
little wrong, BIG wrong. I am curious to see how they handle a Biden
administration. Should be an interesting ride. (-8
While I am not a big fan of CNN, I expect Biden to get a "honeymoon"
period from most major networks. Otherwise, I expect them to report the
news.
Report the news and not political propaganda? I seriously doubt they
know how to do that.

islander
2020-11-21 00:39:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:51:42 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Post by El Castor
Post by Johnny
By Ronn Blitzer
Published 2 hours ago
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the
case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020
election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a
"centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.
Cut!
"What I’m describing to you is a massive fraud," Giuliani said at the
Capitol Hill news conference with other members of Trump's legal team,
who repeatedly lashed out at the news media and accused them of
treating their efforts unfairly.
Cut!
The former New York City mayor spoke about incidents in Pennsylvania
where Republican poll watchers claimed they were not allowed to observe
the counting process because they were kept too far away. A judge had
ruled in their favor and ordered that they be permitted six feet away
from the counting at a center in Philadelphia, but that was overturned
after officials appealed.
Giuliani also claimed that while Pennsylvania does not allow absentee
voters to fix any errors with their ballots, some were given that
opportunity -- but not those from Republican areas.
He cited sworn affidavits from cases in Pennsylvania and Michigan from
poll workers who spoke about instructions from supervisors. One
affidavit said that workers in Pennsylvania were instructed to assign
ballots without names to random people, resulting in thousands of
people in Pittsburgh showing up to the polls to find that votes had
been cast in their names.
Another affidavit said that a supervisorin Michigan instructed workers
to change the dates on absentee ballots to show that they arrived
earlier than they had. An affidavit also claimed that workers were told
not to request photo identification from Michigan voters, even though
state law requires it.
Giuliani also said that approximately 100,000 absentee ballots in
Wisconsin should have been deemed invalid because there were no
applications for them. President-elect Joe Biden leads President Trump
in that state by roughly 20,000 votes.
“If you count the lawful votes, Trump won Wisconsin," Giuliani said.
Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis explained the lack of new
evidence at the news conference to support their allegations by saying
this was merely an "opening statement," and that more evidence would be
forthcoming in court.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/giuliani-presses-trump-election-challenge-case-in-fiery-news-conference
I believe him, the democrats were planning long before the election
what they were going to do to help Biden win.
Trump was leading until the mail in votes started coming in.
If you listened to the reaction of Fox commentators following
Giiulani's news conference you would have heard nothing but ill
concealed disbelief. I voted for Trump and wish he had won, but if
this mess lacks the iron clad proof Giuliani claims to posses, can't
be proven in court, and degenerates into some lame refusal to
surrender the White House, then God help us. I would gladly join Josh
and Islander in the street waving a "Kick Trump Out" sign. Trump is
important, but not more important than the Constitution and the rule
of law.
What if Trump leaves without conceding, all the while endlessly tweeting
he was robbed? Does that change your opinion of him? Would it influence
who you vote for (in the primaries or general election) if he runs in 2024?
Trump can be an annoying jerk, not always what I would call
"presidential", but I support him because of what he has accomplished
and the policies he supports. Corporate tax reform, standing up to
China, opportunity zones, immigration enforcement, progress in the
Middle East, and economic policies that gave us low unemployment
(including Black) and a very strong economy -- until COVID-19 came
along -- etc. But -- if he refuses to leave the White House I'm OK if
he is escorted out in hand cuffs. I hope, and don't believe, it will
come to that.
Let's say he leaves but continues to tweet without evidence (after
failing miserable in court) that the election was stolen from him?
In that event, it seems to me that as a private citizen he could be sued
for liable by the people he is accusing of stealing the election. That
could be a massive class action suit!
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