Discussion:
alt.sixtyplus
(too old to reply)
Gary
2019-12-26 16:28:58 UTC
Permalink
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.

"Y'all have a merry holiday".
El Castor
2019-12-27 06:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
islander
2019-12-27 17:05:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.

You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.

The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.

Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.

Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Gary
2019-12-27 17:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
We don't have to argue about everything. Two strangers agreeing on a
subject -- and then exchanging reasons why they agree -- can be very
interesting.
El Castor
2019-12-27 19:45:48 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:39:42 -0800, El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Most, if not all, religious festivals seem to have origins that
pre-date Christianity. Easter is another example. As I've said before,
I'm an agnostic. I regard these festivals as important cultural
events, which I enjoy. I find the Left's hand wringing over the word
Christmas to be a particularly annoying and unneeded injection of
politics into my culture. BTW, the Left apparently wants me to believe
that my celebration of Christmas is an insult to non-Christians. That
is ridiculous. Are Christians offended by Hanukkah? Of course not.
islander
2019-12-28 17:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:39:42 -0800, El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Most, if not all, religious festivals seem to have origins that
pre-date Christianity. Easter is another example. As I've said before,
I'm an agnostic. I regard these festivals as important cultural
events, which I enjoy. I find the Left's hand wringing over the word
Christmas to be a particularly annoying and unneeded injection of
politics into my culture. BTW, the Left apparently wants me to believe
that my celebration of Christmas is an insult to non-Christians. That
is ridiculous. Are Christians offended by Hanukkah? Of course not.
Frankly, I think this is a straw-man argument perpetuated by
Republicans. Democrats and liberals that I know support freedom of
religion including the personal right to observe religion without
interfering with another person's rights as long as no harm is done.
Personally, I think that the Christian belief, based on the Sermon on
the Mount makes a lot of sense: "But thou, when thou prayest, enter
into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father
which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward
thee openly." Matthew 6:6

Call it Christmas or a Solstice celebration, I really don't care.
El Castor
2019-12-28 19:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:39:42 -0800, El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Most, if not all, religious festivals seem to have origins that
pre-date Christianity. Easter is another example. As I've said before,
I'm an agnostic. I regard these festivals as important cultural
events, which I enjoy. I find the Left's hand wringing over the word
Christmas to be a particularly annoying and unneeded injection of
politics into my culture. BTW, the Left apparently wants me to believe
that my celebration of Christmas is an insult to non-Christians. That
is ridiculous. Are Christians offended by Hanukkah? Of course not.
Frankly, I think this is a straw-man argument perpetuated by
Republicans. Democrats and liberals that I know support freedom of
religion including the personal right to observe religion without
interfering with another person's rights as long as no harm is done.
Personally, I think that the Christian belief, based on the Sermon on
the Mount makes a lot of sense: "But thou, when thou prayest, enter
into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father
which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward
thee openly." Matthew 6:6
Call it Christmas or a Solstice celebration, I really don't care.
I stand by every word, and it's not something I have to read or be
told, it's obvious. By the way, it is Christmas, not a solstice
celebration or just another "holiday".
islander
2019-12-29 02:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:39:42 -0800, El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Most, if not all, religious festivals seem to have origins that
pre-date Christianity. Easter is another example. As I've said before,
I'm an agnostic. I regard these festivals as important cultural
events, which I enjoy. I find the Left's hand wringing over the word
Christmas to be a particularly annoying and unneeded injection of
politics into my culture. BTW, the Left apparently wants me to believe
that my celebration of Christmas is an insult to non-Christians. That
is ridiculous. Are Christians offended by Hanukkah? Of course not.
Frankly, I think this is a straw-man argument perpetuated by
Republicans. Democrats and liberals that I know support freedom of
religion including the personal right to observe religion without
interfering with another person's rights as long as no harm is done.
Personally, I think that the Christian belief, based on the Sermon on
the Mount makes a lot of sense: "But thou, when thou prayest, enter
into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father
which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward
thee openly." Matthew 6:6
Call it Christmas or a Solstice celebration, I really don't care.
I stand by every word, and it's not something I have to read or be
told, it's obvious. By the way, it is Christmas, not a solstice
celebration or just another "holiday".
Of course you do. Blaming this on the liberals is just a straw-man.
But as I said, I really don't care.
El Castor
2019-12-29 07:30:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:39:42 -0800, El Castor
Post by islander
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
Bringing evergreen boughs into the home has Pagan origins, predating
Christianity. It is speculated that it was part of winter solstice
celebrations involving an attempt to brighten the middle of winter with
evergreens of various types including not only pine boughs, but also
holly and mistletoe.
You can probably thank Martin Luther for adapting an existing tradition
to the Protestant Christian religion.
The actual date of Christ's birth is not known, but it is speculated
that the Romans picked the date to correspond to the winter solstice to
discourage worship of Saturn so the date probably has Catholic origins.
Of course, the Catholics have their own story about Saint Boniface
chopping down a tree that pagans were worshiping.
Perhaps we should call it a solstice tree? Or simply keep calling it a
Christmas tree and recognize the history.
Personally, I think we have much more serious things to argue about.
Most, if not all, religious festivals seem to have origins that
pre-date Christianity. Easter is another example. As I've said before,
I'm an agnostic. I regard these festivals as important cultural
events, which I enjoy. I find the Left's hand wringing over the word
Christmas to be a particularly annoying and unneeded injection of
politics into my culture. BTW, the Left apparently wants me to believe
that my celebration of Christmas is an insult to non-Christians. That
is ridiculous. Are Christians offended by Hanukkah? Of course not.
Frankly, I think this is a straw-man argument perpetuated by
Republicans. Democrats and liberals that I know support freedom of
religion including the personal right to observe religion without
interfering with another person's rights as long as no harm is done.
Personally, I think that the Christian belief, based on the Sermon on
the Mount makes a lot of sense: "But thou, when thou prayest, enter
into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father
which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward
thee openly." Matthew 6:6
Call it Christmas or a Solstice celebration, I really don't care.
I stand by every word, and it's not something I have to read or be
told, it's obvious. By the way, it is Christmas, not a solstice
celebration or just another "holiday".
Of course you do. Blaming this on the liberals is just a straw-man.
But as I said, I really don't care.
Of course you don't.
CLOISTER
2019-12-27 17:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
More political correctness I don't know how many people
remember it, but Donald Trump mentioned in the primaries
that he had no use for political correctness. And I am
tickled to hear that MP Boris Johnson feels the same way.
It is the left's way of watering down our culture and
controlling anything they don't like.
Western Civilization sprung from Christianity
They even tried to twist what B.C. and A.D. means
They want to call it a "Common Time" Common
my ass. Christ entered time and that event
is the CENTER of Christianity. There are plenty
of other calendars. If you don't like our's, go
follow your own.
Gary
2019-12-27 22:22:17 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.

Just wondering.
El Castor
2019-12-28 00:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.
Just wondering.
Liberals oppose religion, and Christianity in particular. They resent
religion's monopoly on the rules of morality. Liberalism is itself
very much like a religion in that it has its own rules of morality. As
I heard a Rabbi put it, religion defines where we come from, what we
should do while we are here, and what happens to us when we die --
which describes liberalism to a tee. Liberals like to define people on
the basis of identity groups. They can relate to smaller victim
groups, like Gays and domestic Muslims, which they cater to and
enthusiastically support. A large competitor like Christianity is the
enemy, and the holidays and trees of the enemy are to be looked down
upon.
islander
2019-12-28 17:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.
Just wondering.
Did you put up decorations on your house?
Gary
2019-12-28 18:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by Gary
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.
Just wondering.
Did you put up decorations on your house?
No we didn't. This was the first year we have not had some
decorations. But .... we have an excuse. We are old folks:-)
islander
2019-12-29 02:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary
Post by islander
Post by Gary
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.
Just wondering.
Did you put up decorations on your house?
No we didn't. This was the first year we have not had some
decorations. But .... we have an excuse. We are old folks:-)
Sure!
b***@gmail.com
2019-12-29 23:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by islander
Post by Gary
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 22:32:16 -0800, El Castor
Post by El Castor
Post by Gary
They must now be working in our country. Up til a few years ago,
everywhere I went in December I saw advertisements cerebrating
Christmas. In recent years, I see fewer. Now they all seem to
refer to Christmas as "the holiday". I suppose certain people don't
like the word "Christ". And they seem to be winning out.
"Y'all have a merry holiday".
Still Christmas for me -- with a Christmas tree , which I have never
heard referred to as a holiday tree.
I really am curious as to what is happening. It seems to me Christmas
in my town has about disappeared. For instance, I can drive to the
shopping mall. (about 5 miles). On the way, I pass through about
four suburban neighborhoods. In the past, there would be several
(20 or 30?) houses with Christmas decorations in the yard and on the
house. Lights, trees and statues. This week -- not a single one
was decorated. What's happened ? I have read some comments about
some groups wanting to do away with Christmas. I don't know which
groups -- but they seem to be accomplishing that.
Just wondering.
Did you put up decorations on your house?
I put up a 5 pointed star wound with colored tinfoil and 50 lights all controlled by a old PC computer running a basic DOS program to create several different sequences of moving lights. There is a external circuit board to latch and store the data from the computer. And also an external power supply to power the lights. There used to be a lady that wandered around here years ago just to watch the lights. Too bad I didn't get to know her.
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